kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted August 06, 2003 06:31 AM
quote:
Entropy,,,,,,,,,,,you must be your own boss as you are posting secret information?!?!?! hahahahahaha
Nope, the "missus" is!! :-)
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
  
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted August 06, 2003 09:35 AM
Well...I guess I'm back to saying...screw you Ra...
I will NOT loose my job because of posting info that the owner of this shop HAS told me NOT TO POST...simple as that...
Didn't even finish this 1st page...back from vacation...no web at home...
John's bike DID run 9.0s with ME on it like it or not...
Th bike is sitting here right now with the crash damage...Valve cover has STILL NEVER BEEN OFF of this motor...I TRULY don't care if YOU believe it or not...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 06, 2003 10:17 AM
Kevin, if the vote were taken right now, there would only be 1 vote on this board against you runing the 9.0's. I know enough that yourd word means something to you and none of us are worth you lying over! Move on!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 06, 2003 02:45 PM
Well, Kevin it does appear that you are good at screwing folks!!!
I didn't expect you to deal with the issue i raised......But i did expect your direct personal attack. Please note I addressed your actions not your person. Prove me wrong technically, it is not personal, it is about performance!!!
Kevin, I never said I didn't "believe" you rode the bike to a 9.0. But you KNOW and EVERYONE KNOWS that i didn't say you didn't or couldn't do it! (Bush wasn't Governor when you were in school, so I would expect that you could READ what is written?!?!) I said that it was not something that 4 years or the MANY EXCELLENT riders with a "stock motored ONLY" zx12 has reproduced. Muzzy should have hired you and not Ryan as he was barely running 9.0's with a dry shot on a schnitz prepped 1270!!! I fully am supportive of "show room stock motors" running a 9.0. It is just that they DONT!!! "normally"
This thread reminds me of Robert Supernuts initial thread when he ran a 9.40's and found all that "power" but couldn't tell because of his competition or whatever............."I am doing this and that, but cant' say how, what or why!!!" Then when we (I even remember Cliff saying something) challenged Robert or disagree he gets upset and personal, instead of dealing with the issue. ......Yawn Yawn Yawn.............. I have been here a long time and know show boating when i read it.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted August 06, 2003 03:35 PM
I know Vin 
I'm over this guy this time...nothing to prove to him or anyone else...
Just comming here to share some info on something that is new to some of us...Just not alowed to tell ALL...anymore (what I do here anyway)...
The owner of this place made it VERY clear to me before I started working here that anything done here would NOT be allowed to go public...I was told that I would have to sign an agreement...so I could be SUED if I shared info that wasn't allowed by the owner... it never went THAT far but...I for SURE would loose my job if I went against the owners wishes...
NOT gonna happen ...
I have yet to build a motor trying eek out every bit of power possible...I build MORE for reliability than max power...Gary's 1361 was done with the same idea...reliability...drive it anywhere...anytime...
He is VERY happy with how his bike runs...
As far as cam timming on this 1317...the cams are overlapping MORE than Carpenter himself suggested for this motor...
Before I backed them off...they were set where people here have been told to cams run in stock or maybe a 1270 motor ("about" 105/101)...NOW???the numbers are a bit higher but NOT AS HIGH as Carpenter suggested...
The ONLY reason I even gave a compression # was because entropy wanted it so bad...and I like him 
The motor WILL make more compression (cranking that is) after the rings seal better (which they WILL/probably already have)...
The motor WILL make more power after it's mapped...
The A/F on the 202hp run was about 12 to 1!!!
The HP #s with the cams closer AND better A/F were LOWER...
ANY/ALL #s I post are ALWAYS corrected...never uncorrected...
By the way...MY personal DragBike never pushed a compression guage over 120psi!?!?!?But it sure did run good for a small motor??? 142mph isn't too bad for a 425lb (without me on it) 1105cc bike...
So..."Cranking Compression" isn't the only thing that makes power...
I've seen Cranking Compression change MORE THAN 40PSI with the cams being the only parts changed in the motor...
SO...saying that a motor won't/can't make power with less than 220 cranking??? is just plain silly...WAY too many variables for that to fly...
SORRY TO HERE about the bad bearings Carl...I try my best to talk people out of buying those high-$ wheel bearings for the street...even for racing...unless they are out of options for MORE POWER 1st...OR they just plain have money to burn and say they MUST have them...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 06, 2003 03:53 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 6 Aug 2003 16:55
Kevin :up :up (If we had a thumbs up!) Kevin, you know that I have no problem in jumping on anyone or anything and at anytime! I even jumped on Muzzy when I got my clutch and of course we all know about Frank Adams (Did I just say his name??) Saying that, the entire time I have been on this board and others, I personally have never seen where, where anyone (Including me) has ever had any kind of problem with you! "EVER"!! And of course you are not going to be goaded into giving someone information paid for - For FREE! You are the man Mr. K and welcome to the club! (The club I am a member of and quite a few others, Help people long enough and one day they will turn on you!) Just keep doing what you are doing!
The guy is correct, about the Big Blocks, Timing advancers and Bear stacks (What was originally said).
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted August 06, 2003 04:47 PM
ra...
Only...LAST responce to anything you have to say to/about me...
I have NO DOUBT that there ARE stock motored bikes out there that HAVE run as low #s as I have on John's bike...if nothing else there are FOR SURE...LOTS of ZX12s out there that have run higher MPH than I have... So...I just happened to luck out with the air/track condions AND was at the "top of my game" on John's bike "that weekend" (ran 9.0s 2-days) I was 20 pounds lighter then also 
I still get a kick out of watching the video-s (9.20s-5.90s FOOT SHIFTING) I sit and watch "the rider" WACK the throttle WFO before the bike moves!?!?!? then I realize...I know that guy?!?!?! Don't care who it is doing it...it looks pretty coool... 
Just because it hasn't been posted all over the internet...DOESN'T mean it hasn't been done...
I would be the FIRST person to be SHOCKED if no-one else has ever run that fast on stock motor...I have never thought I am anything more than an "above average rider"...I just happen to be able to ride "most peoples bikes" quicker/faster than they themselves can
I was told #s that Chip Ellis ran on a ZX12 (his I think???) years ago by a friend that manages a track north of you...I could NOT believe the bike was stock (as Chip told my friend)...the numbers were just too fast...from the 60ft all the way to the MPH...
I never posted the numbers because even though I believed my friend (who has a photographic memory)...it was second-hand-info (to me) that the bike realy was stock...made me feel slow...
I also...made an ASS of myself on Dragbike.com saying..."I know I'm no Rickey but...how the hell can he run 9.40s on a STOCKer"...that was when I was still running 70s...I just didn't want to believe John's bike (and ME) were THAT much slower that him...
I guess my times show just how far a person/bike-combo can improve with LOTS of practice and an above average FEEL for bikes...
Don't care if you answer or not ra12...but I AM curious...
Why don't we ever hear/see how quick/FAST your bike/MOTORS run???
Proof is in the...time slip/s right???
Pretty sure my best ever on John's stock motor ON NUTEC is 123 and 152mph...
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 06, 2003 04:56 PM
Vincent, everything I have had to offer that was helpful to other owners I have given for free. NO EXCUSES!!!
If you cant' post what you do in the shop, then truly DONT POST what you are doing in the shop.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 06, 2003 05:13 PM
Proof is in the time slips!!! I am too heavy to run those times. But, in racing "Everyone" seems to have a stock bike?!?! That is why I am trying to solve the 10mph brickwall problem that some of us have....thanks for the help in solving the problem.....I will lower my compression!!!
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 06, 2003 07:22 PM
Edited By: BA on 6 Aug 2003 20:28
Ryans 9.0's using a dry shot were on a stock arm.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 06, 2003 07:30 PM
ra, are you talking 10mph in the 1/4 mile, ie, stuck in low 140's, or do you mean 6th gear, top speed stuff?
(yeah, I realize I'm in the DRAG forum) lol!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted August 07, 2003 06:32 AM
If my fat ass(250lbs at the time) can run 146mph on my stock motor(165hp)...stock wheelbase...stock tire bike.....then I see no reason why someone much lighter..and much better than me at riding it cant do 151 with a 6 over arm and a sticky tire.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 07, 2003 09:07 AM
RA, a question for you. First here is the circumstances! You do not do the work on your owm bike. You must pay someone to do the work. Last, you want to go fast, so you pay top dollar to get someone to do the work for you!
Understanding the circumstances, If you had just paid someone to make your bike fast and they charged you for the time to dial in everything, "Would you be happy if the work you paid for was posted all over the internet WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION?"
This is what we have here! I do all of my own work and post the results and you do your own work and post the results. Kevin #1, Works "FOR" someone and #2, He is paid to work on other people's bikes and does not have their permission to tell what he is doing "Either"!
Now looking at it from this perpective, does it make anymore sense to you??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 07, 2003 09:09 AM
quote:
MANNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont leave us hanging like this!!!!!!!!!
Doug, did you see the story about Mickey Thompson on CBS 60 II Last night! I had Mickey Thompson Street slicks back in the mid 60's on my 1963 Corvette!
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted August 07, 2003 09:46 AM
YCIS, 146mph@250lbs? You know a lot these speeds & times people get, I don't think the majority of people are lying. I think the track timing equipment is off for whatever reason! It's really the only way to explain what goes on. On another thread it's been asked what's the highest MPH on a N/A motor, so far I think the best# was 157mph! And these were with 1361 motors dynoing probably about 205hp,with some fairly light riders. So about a 40hp difference & about 100lbs lighter, and you only get about 10mph? I think the clocks at some tracks are screwy! Or, does anybody have a reasonable explanation to explain what's happening? Seems to me there should be more than a 10mph difference between stock & built engines!?
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 07, 2003 11:24 AM
Vincent, completely understanding what you said. I will quote what I already posted.
quote:
If you cant' post what you do in the shop, then truly DONT POST what you are doing in the shop.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 07, 2003 11:54 AM
quote:
Pretty sure my best ever on John's stock motor ON NUTEC is 123 and 152mph...
That is a 5 mph difference between a 1270,1290,1361, and 1427.
Addison, don't question things on this board, just know that a 50HP difference and who knows how much torque, not to mention a nitrous dry shot will give you 5 mph over what you started with......
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 07, 2003 12:39 PM
Kevin is "Just" Human! No one can resist posting about a new or neat project! Personally, I rather know a little about a lot of things and a lot about very few! As Kevin can, he will post! They owner of the bike nmay come here and post everything himnself because the Owner of kevin's Shop cannot tell the paying customer what to do! If you piss off Kevin and he tell the owner to never tell, see where we are now?? Let it rest and it will all come out in the wash (Sooner or later all secrets are revealed!)
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted August 07, 2003 01:18 PM
Well...I will admit that the conditions of that run were so perfect they could not be duplicated again ever in florida
We are talking 30 degrees outside...and ZERO humidity...probably the most beautiful day for racing ive ever seen at gville.
Gainesville is a NHRA track...I seriously doubt their lights are off much..but its possible.
Now as a comparison...I ran at the same track last night...where the temp was 80 degrees...and the humididty was around 90%...and my best time was 10.20@139 so that alone cost me nearly 7mph just for weather.
When people quote their best times...they are going to quote flukes...and times they have never repeated in all their time racing...and for good reason..its an accomplishment. However usually someones BEST times ever...are well outside the curve...not the norm.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 07, 2003 03:38 PM
hey. {{{looking around}}}
I run 9.30's with a stock motor & stock arm, a l l d a y l o n g!
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted August 08, 2003 07:12 AM
VIncent?!?! You can't get water from a rock, unless you are Moses! Your scared to piss off Kevin?!?! That is like me being scared to piss off a homeless person cause I might lose a real estate deal!!!
I am so tired of telling people to READ. The owner has already posted, commented, been replied to, and gone quiet. Vincent, If you want something from Kevin, that is fine, but kiss his ass privately. He has direct email, I am sure that he will be happy to talk with you personally.
Vincent, I have followed your posting in the past. But i have never gotten in the middle of ANY, NONE of your issues of disagreements. I don't believe in defending grown men that allow their own actions or words to create questions that others want answers. You spent a great deal of time hating Frank and Robert. Please look to find my posts to defend them "personally" when YOU were posting about "objective" issues. I would ask you to please allow the issues that i have raised to remain "objective" and not continually try to "flip it" into some character judgement issue. Thank you in advance.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 08, 2003 07:38 AM
My opinion is that unless the owner is very specific to the builder about keeping a secret then there is no secret to be kept. If he didn't ask for it to remain private then there is no harm done is sharing. Obviously if the customer asks up front that all work remain confidential that is another story.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 08, 2003 10:13 AM
Good statement, Most likely I will never have anything done by Kevin (Only because I do 99.9% of my own work and do not live anywhere near where he is!) Is it ok that I just like the guy and the fact that we have not had any personal disagreements (Which is saying a lot!)? I understand what you are saying and the way you said it So I will step back! (Sometimes an outside viewpoint is easier to see than the one you are having a problem with! (and with that, I am moving along and good luck to the both of you!)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted August 09, 2003 04:35 PM
quote:
Good statement,Is it ok that I just like the guy and the fact that we have not had any personal disagreements (Which is saying a lot!)?
Been a busy week...haven't been able to make it back...
UP YOURS VINCENT!!!
You DO know I'm kidding...sir...
ra...those of us that have been here for long enough to get to know each other...DO jump in when someone "like you" (or Robert) talks shit about one of our "friends"...
Funny thing is...ROBERT IS A VERY NICE PERSON...in person...
I would loose respect for someone like Vincent if they even tried to kiss my ass...
Never liked it...never will...
That is one of the reasons I will do anything I can to help PEOPLE "have more fun" on they're bikes if I can...NICE PEOPLE that is
YOU hardly EVER post YOUR info OR #s ...but you sure do jump on ANYONE that doesn't tell YOU "what you WANT to hear"...so...what the HELL makes it OK for you to say ANYONE here is BS,Lie-r, Rip-Off???
You realy are...something else...
It's NOT MY FAULT that YOUR SHIT DOESN'T RUN!?!?!?
(post the #s to prove me wrong...PLEASE!!!)
yet...you keep coming here looking for "some magical thing" that will make YOU run the #s you think you should be??? running...
All of my posted times are from NHRA tracks (9.0s are from Gainesville Raceway within weeks of the GATOR NATIONALS...I'd bet my last dollar that the clocks "work" there)
I never posted the 124-125mph runs I got at the Lakeland track because that is OBviously BO-GUS...
We had someone here bet us $1,000 to pull the motor down...on the spot (at the track after running 5.9zzz)...but when it became obvious to him (my opinion) that we WERE going to TAKE HIS MONEY...he backed out...
That sucked ...we would have had a 1270 (probably 1290) kit in the bike...
Once again...I have NOTHING to prove to anyone...I come here to have fun...which this is NOT to me (or I'd be at LA-B more )...
Does it make me feel good knowing I've done things on John's bike that most people have a hard time (or CAN'T) do themselves???
No...
IT FEELS GREAT!!!
YES...(as Vincent said above)I AM HUMAN!!!
Does it make me feel "better" than ANYONE else???
HELL NO!!
We might (or might not?) get close to 210 out of the 1317 when it's done (looser-MAPPED)...THAT IS WHAT WE WERE HOPE-ing for...that's what Gary's 1361 made at 500-miles...
Don't care if you like it or not...ra...
That's it!!!
I'm putting the DryShot on John's bike (we will be here sunday fixing his crash damage)...
8-s @ 160...here we come
Doug...if you see this Sir...
I heard you would like a dyno graph...I will send it to you next week...was just too crazy this week...
I will also send you one after the bike is mapped...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 09, 2003 07:32 PM
OK Kevin Supernut! I think Robert is nice in person to keep from getting Killed! Nothing like getting called "SIR" To really let you know just how old you are! and Kevin you may not feel better than anyone else, but mechanically, you are! Pratice makes anyone better, even you!!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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