zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted July 30, 2003 08:02 AM
Nice numbers Kevin  Should run REAL well when it's broken in and mapped  WTG.
You can increase cam overlap to reduce compression entropy, not sure which would better to move or both.
  
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blink
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted July 30, 2003 08:41 AM
THANKS Kevin! I picked up the bike. I feel cursed and lucky, still not riding though. The rattling you heard wasn't worn chain/sprockets. Good grief 1 of the wheel bearings had completly disintegrated and and the balls were just rolling around, I have only found 2. The bearing on the sprocket carrier feels like 0 grit sandpaper and the other wheel bearing barely rotates at all. WTF! Good thing I decided to wait until I changed the wheel before I opened it up. Oh well I haven't mastered the juggling required to put my stock wheel back on so I will have to wait for my wife to help. The temp stayed pretty much at 9:00 until I got to San Jose but it cooled right back down too so I would say that initially it is running cooler than the old motor and I doubt the weather will be much worse than this. I accidently went over 6,000 once, well OK a couple of times, well OK once in front of that cop too but he didn't stop me so it didn't count.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 30, 2003 09:15 AM
"I accidently went over 6,000 once, well OK a couple of times,..."
bahahahahahahaha!!!!!
IRRESISTABLE!!!!!
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted July 30, 2003 12:09 PM
you guys are driving me nuts, I can not wait to get mine to the dyno. ohh congrats on the #'s!!
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 30, 2003 01:01 PM
quote:
...1 of the wheel bearings had completly disintegrated and and the balls were just rolling around, I have only found 2. The bearing on the sprocket carrier feels like 0 grit sandpaper and the other wheel bearing barely rotates at all.....
Blink,
something is outa place; not routine.
I would make sure that the bushing which is INSIDE the sprocket carrier is in place. Destruction of bearings is exactly what happens when it rolls under the workbench during R&R of the rear wheel (and is forgotten).
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blink
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted July 30, 2003 02:39 PM
Thanks Entropy! But, it was actually another ISSUE with my freaking DAMAG wheels. This time it was a ceramic bearing that failed. The special grease they put in it was way too thick for a ceramic bearing in my opinion, we use them all the time in the machine tools and a little light oil seems to work better than grease. At least the sprocket carrier is still fine. This probably means my front wheel bearings are gone or going too. Thankfully there is likely to be very little weight on the front now with the new motor. I can tell you that my bike is much easier to push around at least. At first I was thinking, sheesh, I forgotten how heavy the 12 was, but no I had been trying to drag it around on just the axle.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 30, 2003 11:49 PM
Blink,
grease to heavy for ceramics? hmmmmmm... yikes!
I have had ceramics on the front w/normal grease for about a year+ with no problems. I also recently packed my rear ceramics in normal grease because I just got tired of having to remember to keep squirting lite lube on em every couple passes. I hope I am not in for trouble...
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted July 31, 2003 07:04 AM
Well, I am going to say it like I feel it...............Thanks Kevin for information that amounts to NOTHING!!!!!! Your Boss is now your excuse for posting on the net?!?!?! Before you were raging about all the things that you guys were doing and buidling and asking for comparative info about carillo's in strokers.......blah blah blah Now you cant talk about cam numbers and YOU now have "SPECIAL" numbers and cant post them?! Well i will certainly say that if you only got 200hp with a 1317 billet, head work and your special numbers and carpenter cams, then to save face as your Boss I would make you stay quiet too!!! Didn't you say you got that with a 1270 and OEM cams?!?! Better not tell your customer after he has spent over $4000 in parts alone,,,,,,hahahaha
Secondly, what is everyone so excited about?!?!? If Kevin puts a motor together and it runs you guys get hard and have an orgasm.....I guess I should post about the last time I changed my oil filter so everyone can cheer!!!!!! It just amazes me!!!
Thirdly, anyone that knows anything knows that you cant' make real HP on these motors less than 220 psi!!! But the amazing Kevin intensionally reduces his customers psi by dialing the cams to decrease the cranking compression to 200psi. Increasing your cam overlap to do that must make the idleling horrible and probably create a 2500 rpm issue........?!?!?! This is the very issue that y2kzx12r posted about but he directly showed how to "INCREASE" the psi and "GAVE" the cam numbers to everyone........... Thanks for your wonderful contribution on this topic!!! Kevin you are a great "bolt turner", I am willing to race ANY of your motors anytime!!!!
How do you seat rings with Nicklesil plated cylinders?!?!
I am working and looking my butt off for some info that needs to get public, and the people that could really help go proprietary. When i found and fixed that tranny issue, (with help from others here) I posted everything including the BULLL SHITTT about needing to get this tranny undercut!!!! (Oooops did i cost some one some money?!?!) But once again just because someone posts on the net does not mean anything........if you cant' put the numbers down at the track!!! MPH MPH MPH not dyno HP is the ticket....
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted July 31, 2003 07:29 AM
Where do you race ra12r?
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted July 31, 2003 08:05 AM
wow, it's like someone pissed in your wheaties or something. :-D
You do bring up a good point about HP numbers for different combo's, like a 1270 vs a 1317 with cams, BUT, you know darn well that "seating the rings" was a euphenism for going on a frisky test ride.
You can make your comments and observations without being pointlessly sarcastic.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted July 31, 2003 09:48 AM
Popcorn anyone?
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted July 31, 2003 10:03 AM
you're an angry person, arent you ra12r? :o
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted July 31, 2003 10:37 AM
Cry me a river!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 31, 2003 12:06 PM
Maybe this guy is "SuperNut" (And got tired of Labusas)with a different Handle??
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blink
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted July 31, 2003 01:32 PM
ra12! Since this motor Kevin has together is mine and if you don't mind sharing what cam settings would you recommend? The motor idles fine around 1200 rpm and there is not a major issue at 2,500. I expect the horsepower to get better with the current settings when it is run again in a couple of weeks with the current cam settings. I have seen horsepower claims all over the internet with quite a range in readings. I have seen Lee's 1361 motors at 204 while 1270 motors on Lees web site are showing 215. I never saw the 1270 posted at 200 by Kevin as you claim but I haven't been around here very long. Before my motor was finished someone over at PSYCHO BUSA RACING posted that they had 196.5 with the 1317, they didn't say that they had cams and slightly larger valves. Of course most reply's were that they were foolish. When I spoke with someone at Carpenter they said expect around 10 hp more but when I actually ordered the cams they said more like 5 and possibly 10. So, if you would like to be helpful please tell me what horsepower you are making with your 1317 motor? What mph are you getting in the 1/4? Thanks in advance because I know you will help me unlike others here.
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted July 31, 2003 02:27 PM
quote:
Well, I am going to say it like I feel it...............Thanks Kevin for information that amounts to NOTHING!!!!!! Your Boss is now your excuse for posting on the net?!?!?! Before you were raging about all the things that you guys were doing and buidling and asking for comparative info about carillo's in strokers.......blah blah blah Now you cant talk about cam numbers and YOU now have "SPECIAL" numbers and cant post them?! Well i will certainly say that if you only got 200hp with a 1317 billet, head work and your special numbers and carpenter cams, then to save face as your Boss I would make you stay quiet too!!! Didn't you say you got that with a 1270 and OEM cams?!?! Better not tell your customer after he has spent over $4000 in parts alone,,,,,,hahahaha
Secondly, what is everyone so excited about?!?!? If Kevin puts a motor together and it runs you guys get hard and have an orgasm.....I guess I should post about the last time I changed my oil filter so everyone can cheer!!!!!! It just amazes me!!!
Thirdly, anyone that knows anything knows that you cant' make real HP on these motors less than 220 psi!!! But the amazing Kevin intensionally reduces his customers psi by dialing the cams to decrease the cranking compression to 200psi. Increasing your cam overlap to do that must make the idleling horrible and probably create a 2500 rpm issue........?!?!?! This is the very issue that y2kzx12r posted about but he directly showed how to "INCREASE" the psi and "GAVE" the cam numbers to everyone........... Thanks for your wonderful contribution on this topic!!! Kevin you are a great "bolt turner", I am willing to race ANY of your motors anytime!!!!
How do you seat rings with Nicklesil plated cylinders?!?!
I am working and looking my butt off for some info that needs to get public, and the people that could really help go proprietary. When i found and fixed that tranny issue, (with help from others here) I posted everything including the BULLL SHITTT about needing to get this tranny undercut!!!! (Oooops did i cost some one some money?!?!) But once again just because someone posts on the net does not mean anything........if you cant' put the numbers down at the track!!! MPH MPH MPH not dyno HP is the ticket....
Damn!!!!! Pass the popcorn!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted July 31, 2003 02:39 PM
Harry...put the popcorn down. Go get some carrot sticks...lol 
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted July 31, 2003 03:17 PM
Dude, take a chill pill! He never said he was gonna tell ya how to rotate the earth with a pipe and some cam timing numbers.
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted July 31, 2003 05:01 PM
NO joke Krexken, he hasn't told us anything that any should listen to...all he has (mostly) done in (MOST) of his post is stroke his own ego..........judge the content of what "HE" posted about what "HE" was doing to a customers bike. The technical facts about how motors work are not that subjective. You (as I can remember) are not that "green" to not understand that you would NOT BE PLEASED if he did that to your motor. This is not a personal attack, it is an action and information attack against BULLLL SHITTTT!!!!! That is why GOOD PEOPLE take their bikes to so called experts and then pay thousansds of dollars and get absolutely beaten down in races! Many words and Many post and Many friends does NOT mean you actually are saying anything of value!!!!
Krexken, have you gone a 9.0 or know of anyone else going a 9.03 on a "stock motor" zx12?!?! I am just tired of the BS.................
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted July 31, 2003 05:30 PM
Blink, I am sorry that you dont' trully understand. I actually don't expect that you would unless this is your major interest or career. Some here do understand what I have addressed. If you will do a search you will see that I am actively searching for some major answers to the cam issue/MPH issue with our motors. In searching for those answers, (SEEK AND YOU WILL FIND) I have discovered some interesting stuff. However to share it with people that now have secret numbers is stupid. He should know better!!!!! Right now, enjoy your bike. These comments were directed to Kevin and not you!!!! You are simply a person that trusted him to KNOW, and frankly he should KNOW BETTER!!! Your bike combo should be very close to 200 hp with STOCK CAMS........He knows this!!!! Many here have gotten 200hp with stock cams. He knows this also!!! Carpenter cams are not much bigger than stock cams. He Knows this,,,,so the gains (if any) are real little. Ask him why the cams are not much bigger........he should know, if he does not then you should re-evaluate what you have been told. Ask him why the Busa has cams up to .440's but the zx12 does not....So to advise you to buy Carpenter cams and not deliver more than stock cams would was not fair to you. If you just wanted carpenter cams then fine. Truly If you wish to talk about your billet block and what to expect then email me or others here. Kevin does not know.......I call it as I read it!!!!
Vincent, your love affair with Robert does not include me!
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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blink
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted July 31, 2003 06:19 PM
Well OK ra12r. I have seen many cam timing posts and truely some people have really done some difficult and tedious work to try and find some answers but I don't remember anything useful from you in particular. So I did do a search as you suggested and I did come accross a post of yours. The post about removing the thermostat was enlightening and informative, for you I hope? So, I am asking you again to be helpful and post your Dyno results or as you prefer your mph in the quarter mile and maybe your 60 ft. times since you are also a knowledgeable and skilled rider. Or you can just continue with your long winded pots with no valuable information what-so-ever, optomize your thermostat timing and remain in the pile of BS where you feel most at home.
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catman12
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted August 01, 2003 07:25 AM
 Edited By: catman12 on 1 Aug 2003 08:26
Hi!!! When you are talking about dyno horsepower, do you compare with SAE Corrected horsepower??? Or not corrected?
Do you pressurise your RAM- air?
And do you all compare with Dynojet 250 or 150?
There are big difference in what your reference are in actual hp numbers.
(excuse my bad english)
/ Mikael from Sweden.
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6.23@126.7mph 1/8mi , 9.44@150.99mph 1/4mi 60" Arm, 1361cc, manual shifting.
http://www.kiruna.se/~mgrape
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 01, 2003 03:24 PM
we just like to argue and speculate Catman, we don't usually bother with that crazy "detail" stuff!  :-D
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted August 01, 2003 03:34 PM
sorry, I just read these in detail this time. This is some good shit.
I should just sit back and watch but I can't! {{chuckling}} It's just too much fun!
I have to make a comment about the stock motored 12R running 9.03, and how it "sounds" like you're calling it BS there, RA12. (I'm totally staying out of all that other bashing! .)
While I haven't seen the 9.0x pass, I don't have to because I know Kev's skill level, size and what a 12R can do with an arm on it.
I have no doubt in my mind that if I were to run John's bike, that I would get a 9.0x out of it as well. It can be done man.
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted August 01, 2003 04:08 PM
well you all can say what ya want. Kevin has turned wrenches on my bike, and all the numbers in the world dont mean a thing to me. I am not a professional racer, its just a hobby. and I dont know all the fancy lino that you all use. But as far as what Kevin has done for me, he made my bike run like a scolded dog. He did it for a very reasonable price. And I know tha tif I need something else done to my bike, I know where its going. ra12r you can bitch and whine all you want. If you wanna know the numbers on that motor, buy it. Then ask all the questions you want. Until then be happy with what you get. Understand that man would give you the detail if he could, but it isnt his call.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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