hotrodninja
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 18, 2003 05:21 AM
Is it the tranny?
Had a few missed shifts last year with my 2002 and a Dale Walker power shifter. Cost me some money, so this year a put an air shifter on it. MRE Junior with electronic kill. Seemed like it was working fine at the slowest setting, but yesterday it hit nuetral twice. It seems like it goes into second, then drops back down to nuetral. Do I need to get the tranny undercut or repaired, or could it be a matter of shifter adjustment? I wouldn't doubt I missed enough gears to round the dogs slightly.
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moonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 153
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posted March 18, 2003 06:03 AM
what is the length of the line from your switching valve to the cylinder
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hotrodninja
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 18, 2003 06:38 AM
I believe the line is a couple inches shorter than the recommended maximum. I mounted the valve down under the tank.
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hotrodninja
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 18, 2003 07:40 AM
I've been doing some research of old posts, and have some ideas to try. First off I need to get max power from my shifter. I put a filter on the output, and I think I'll take it off in case it's limiting my air through the ram. I was running at 90-100psi, I think I'll change it to 100-110. I will also try some of the quicker time delays. Sounds like I can pull the pan and get to the forks, so I might check them and replace if needed. If I can see the gears, I'll be able to see if any dogs are rounded. Only 2000 miles on the bike.
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted March 18, 2003 07:56 AM
With only 2000 miles on the bike, I am surprised that you have used up your tranny already. But, i previously had the same symptoms and posted the solutions. You need to replace at least one of your shift forks. These are a "user" item like a tire. How fast they wear out depends on your shifting style. This can be done through the bottom pan with some work. At a later date you may need to replace 1 or 2 gears in your tranny. You DO NOT need an undercut as the tranny is already undercut from the factory!!!!! Read the older threads for more info.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted March 18, 2003 07:57 AM
hey dude I run 125-130 in mine, and what is your kill time? I have only had a problem with the 1-2 shift. were you on the street? if your tire is spinning it probably wont shift correct. (you probably know this)
Mad Mike
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hotrodninja
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 18, 2003 08:31 AM
I'm hoping I won't need to replace any parts. I'll try to run the pressure higher. I thought the switching valve couldn't take over 125 psi. I'm on the slowest setting on the MPS kill box (100ms). I'll do some adjusting and see if I can't get it working better.
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted March 18, 2003 08:47 AM
quote:
With only 2000 miles on the bike, I am surprised that you have used up your tranny already. But, i previously had the same symptoms and posted the solutions. You need to replace at least one of your shift forks. These are a "user" item like a tire. How fast they wear out depends on your shifting style. This can be done through the bottom pan with some work. At a later date you may need to replace 1 or 2 gears in your tranny. You DO NOT need an undercut as the tranny is already undercut from the factory!!!!! Read the older threads for more info.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 18, 2003 02:48 PM
This may or may not be relavent, because I do not use an air shifter, and I have about 10k miles on my 2000. (weekly drag racing)
I believe that I have some bad/slightly bent SHIFTER FORKS as well, I have heard elsewhere from a well known shops mechanic that the forks are as RA12 mentioned,.....practically a "useable" type of item.
I'm hoping that is what my 1-2 and sometimes, 2-3 shifting problem was last year. It wasn't every time, and just about never happened on the street either, but enough at the track to be a real bummer.
I'm going to read those old threads ra12, to see if you give some tips on how to replace them! I'm a bit scared to tackle the job, but I am mechanically inclined enough that I should be able to do it if no special tools are required.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted March 18, 2003 02:55 PM
Here's an older thread I found:
Click Here
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted March 18, 2003 06:07 PM
 Edited By: CrotchRocket on 18 Mar 2003 18:11
HotRod...From what I have dealt with is that the cable needs to be as straight as possible...If the cable is curved too much then theres not enough pressure to pull up the shifter!!!...The shorter the cable the better it works...Thats why it drops into neutral... Alot of time is needed to spend on which pill to use!!!
CrotchRocket
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hotrodninja
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 19, 2003 06:01 AM
I think I found the problem. I had put a small filter on the outlet of the shifter ram, and it seems to be clogged. That limited the flow of air through the ram. Pulled it off, and the shifter seems to have much more power, goes into gear every time. That would explain why it seemed to work fine when I first installed it, then malfunctioned later. I think I'll take it up to 110 psi prior to the runs just to make sure. It's working so good now, I may be able to lower the kill time a little bit. Mad Mike, I'll come through with that six pack in Brainerd. (don't expect mercy on the track though)
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted March 19, 2003 11:46 AM
You got it buddie!!! how's about you and I in the 20K final for bragging rights... that sounds good to me!! and you gave me an idea I am going to change my filter also. or clean it at least....
Mad Mike
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 19, 2003 03:54 PM
Wannabe, thank you for finding that old thread! Big help for me there!!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted March 19, 2003 05:21 PM
You should run at "least" 120psi...
Is the cylinder hooked to the shift lever? or the linkage-rod???
If it's to the shift lever...120psi is enough...if it's hooked to the linkage-rod, you need at the very "LEAST" 120psi...140 would be better...somewhere around 70ml.sec is good for the kill time...
Me personaly??? I'd rather have "enough kill time" to NEVER miss any gears than..."barely enough" and miss a shift (LOOSE A RACE) 
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted March 19, 2003 07:35 PM
BA, the job is doable especially if you have a service manual. You must remove the entire clutch assembly, and the oil pan etc... The forks width has been worn down by walls of the fork gear channels and generally there is some grooves in the gears created also, but not enough for the forks to not fix the problem until it comes back. The bike will shift into second and then under pressure or acceleration "jump out of gear" into neutral. The dog legs are rounded some but the real problem is that the forks no longer can push the gear far enough to fully engage. This then causes further rounding of the dog legs and the problem gets worse and worse and worse.
When you repair the tranny, with new gears which is real easy and cheap!!! (a few circle clips) Polish the dog legs with a fine file before you re-install, the tranny will be unreal smooth and tight, better than new!!!! Remember, expensive motorcycle tranny work is very very unneccessary! To replace the gears if you don't want to, go to any car transmission guy. But, to remove the tranny you must remove your motor and take off the bottom case.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 20, 2003 02:02 PM
I was about to order my forks, and RonAyers asked me if I wanted the 2 Output forks, or the 1 input fork! Yikes. What do I want? All of them, just the output, one of each?
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted March 20, 2003 02:26 PM
You probably only NEED 1, but the two that are the same require the same amount of work to install both at the same time. The outer 2 are the same and the middle one(3rd-4th gear) is different. Both 1-2, and 5-6 are the same part number fork. Conclusion,,,,,,,,get the 2 output forks! Are you going to take the motor out of the frame??
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 20, 2003 02:33 PM
I'm hoping to NOT have to take the motor out of the frame, but I do have an engine hoist I was going to use to get the whole bike off the ground if I need to! 
(I'll need to get a picture of that!)
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 21, 2003 07:11 AM
One other question, I'm doing the 2 output forks for sure. They are on their way.
I have 10k hard miles on the bike, should I just go ahead and bite the bullet and replace the other fork, and maybe the 1st and 2nd gears as well to bring everything back to new?
Obviously I don't want to have to do it twice, BUT, I'm doing it myself, and have never been in there before, so I don't know how hard any of this is!
As a point of reference, working on car engines is easy, heads, carbs, intakes, all that stuff is a piece of cake. I'd do pistons, rods and bearings if I had the appropriate tools for checking clearance.
By replacing the 2 output shift forks, will I have to have the whole "shaft" out or am I replacing them while that's all still in the bike?
I've got a CD copy of a service manual I think, I plan to look in there for tips and stuff too!
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