KZScott
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posted December 16, 2011 03:06 PM
Dry Sump Tank VENTS?
Hey guys, looking to take care of some design issues with my dry sump tank.
question#1
How much oil should be in the tank when the motor is running at idle, fully warmed up and the oil pan being evacuated properly?
half full? 3/4?
question#2
How should the tank be vented? originally I just had 2 vents stuck on the tank like this
this dripped oil at just idle, oil was splashing up to the cover and dripping down to the filters
I drilled a couple small holes in the bottom of the aluminim tubing leading to the filters and ghetto rigged some hydraulic hose ends last min for a dyno session
this worked for the dyno, no drips
first trip down the track it covered the fender/swingarm in oil. lucky it didnt really get on the tire as it was over 160 mph. i had the tank probly 3/4 full. drained a quart, cleaned everything. did it again, same result. drained a couple more quarts. and it was ok, but i had to keep cleaning the filters as they dripped oil after every run
I see a lot of pro street bikes with what looks to be a puke tank added to the side, but nobody local has anything like this for me to check out and ask questions
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 17, 2011 10:55 AM
Scott, the oil level in the tank should be below the top baffle or "hat". Thats about 2/3 full. you should have a sight tube on it so you can watch the level on the dyno. The scavenge pump may not evacuate all the oil out of the oil pan at an idle. bring the rpms up to 8 grand for 5 seconds and it should evacuate the oil and top off the tank. But you need a sight tube to see whats going on.
I'll take some pics of the drysump setup on my bike.
As for venting.... first you need to reduce the air volume going thru the scavenge system. if the crankcase is vented then two things happen and neither are desirable.
The first thing is the open vent allows air into the crankcase and dramatically increases the volume of air going into the tank.
the second thing is it wont allow you to build any crankcase vacuum. Pulling a vacuum in the crankcase is very desirable because it reduces pumping losses and also helps the rings seal better and reduces the blow by as well.
You should be running a vacuum relief valve. Moroso makes a nice one that is adjustable. I've found that 10" is the sweet spot.
Now that you have the volume of air reduced to a manageable level that's going into the drysump tank you shouldn't have the issues of blowing oil out the tank vent. Typically you would run a vent hose up to a vent tank that will catch any oil and let it drain back down to the tank.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted December 18, 2011 01:22 PM
Thank you Jim, thats very helpful!!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
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posted December 19, 2011 11:22 AM
Scott
nice pic !!
may you have more pics ?
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1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted December 19, 2011 08:11 PM
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=13&TID=63982&set_time=
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted December 22, 2011 03:45 PM
Jim, does the vacuum relief valve allow positive crank case pressure to escape? (im guessing no) I was getting some help from Seb on sh.org
I run my crankcase closed. The only way you can pull vacuum on a busa engine(turbo) is with a 4 stage pump. On a NA application a 3 stage pump will be needed.
I asked if I should run it plugged, said this was a 2 stage pump...
I would leave it open. If you close it you will have + pressure in the crankcase which is not wanted. Even if you plugged it if the turbo is connected to the pan its a vacuum leak and you wont be able to pull vacuum. Thus the need for a scavange section for the turbo and then 3 stages for the engine if you want to pull vacuum . On the starting line my engine sits at -11 inches to -10 inches. By the end of the track its approaching 0. This is how much blowby a turbo engine has.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted December 24, 2011 03:48 AM
Well I can say that the zx14 setup never has positive pressure. There is always a vacuum.
I'm using the Muzzy kit that uses a 2 stage Dailey pump.
And I'm running a 2 ring piston.
Remember if you are going to run a vacuum in the crankcase you need to reverse all the lip seals.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted December 24, 2011 07:42 AM
Ill have to experiment a little when I get the 84mm block in
thanks
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted December 26, 2011 09:50 AM
Scott,
For safety alone, get the tank vent up higher and back. Things can break and you want no possibility oiling the tire.
The vacuum relief valve is a one way valve, the scavenge vacuum sucks it shut.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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KZScott
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posted December 26, 2011 02:27 PM
I will get it changed
thank you for the reply
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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