busaeater01
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted December 15, 2011 08:45 AM
 Edited By: busaeater01 on 15 Dec 2011 18:08
200hp shot on 85mm and/or stroker on zx12?
Hey guys,
I'm trying to figure out the best route for my build. I have an mps spyder system right now, only spraying a 40 shot. i'm looking at a small bore, like 85 mm or possibly even keeping the bore stock because I want to spray around a 200 shot progressively. Also looking at a stroker crank, possibly a small stroker 2 or 3 mm over as i don't want to have some of the skirt issues it seems the large stroke engines get into (or is this a myth???). I want to build the motor as strong as possible to increase engine longevity. Not concerned much with N/A horsepower, more on strength when the nitrous comes on. Any advice from people with experience with this sort of build would be greatly appreciated. Engine life like how long between rebuilds, etc. This will mostly be a drag bike/lsr but i will ride occasionally on the street, bike nights and not far from home. Thanks!
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted December 15, 2011 01:51 PM
BOOM.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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busaeater01
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted December 15, 2011 02:40 PM
anyone have EXPERIENCE with this?
VH, i know you spray a lot, what's your engine set up?
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KZScott
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posted December 15, 2011 03:50 PM
I sure wouldnt stroke it if i was spraying that big, but I believe the Wolf Racing team had decent results with a large shot on a 1427.
my choice for a nitrous build that was getting a 200hp shot would be stock displacement or the 84mm turbo block.
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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busaeater01
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted December 15, 2011 04:14 PM
thanks scott. i can't find those billet blocks listed on their site, what are they asking for them?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted December 15, 2011 05:14 PM
quote:
anyone have EXPERIENCE with this?
VH, i know you spray a lot, what's your engine set up?
Lots of people do, and lots will tell you its a recipe for disaster.
Buddy (RIP) had a 1375 ... sprayed it...BOOM.
NOS1290 had a 3 mill with a 90 shot....BOOM.
If I'm not mistaken Alcindus had a 1270 with a respectable shot: BOOM
Boring and stroking a 12 can be made fairly reliable....but you are already pushing the envelope.
You want to spray a 200 shot of dope...1/4 and LSR?
Thats probably more nitrous than Vincent Hill or Jim Owens has ever sprayed....and you want to reduce any shred of reliability by reducing the meat between the cylinder walls AND increasing piston speed?
Seriously?
If you don't care that much about n/a power than just build a nitrous bike. You are going about it the WRONG WAY boring/stroking/big nitrous.
Speaking of Wrongway, I jockeyed his 1530cc zx14. Many times. And went as fast as 220 mph in a headwind with ball sack hot conditions. Bored, stroked and nitrous. It did pretty well all things considered, we both made multiple passes, but we were no where NEAR the nitrous you're talking about....not even close. And as crazy as I think he is sometimes (as do many board members here to be honest) even he would think you're nuts to do spray THAT much, THAT LONG, on a big motor. People have been trying it for 11 years now, none live. Maybe you'll be the exception...and even then you'll skate by with 1-2 runs on a ticking time bomb...if thats what you really want. Just be sure to let me cut in front of you at Ohio/Maine/Texas before you go spraying the house down cuz if/when you blow up and they shut the runs down for hours trying to clean up the track I won't be the only one pissed you blew up a bike that everyone KNEW would blow up while I'm looking for shade in the sweltering heat cracking open a bottle of water sitting on my ass bored in a line that isn't moving.
As for EXPERIENCE....since you put it in caps....
I've been spraying my 12 for 6 years now. Its an essentially a stock motor and I'm at the limit of what it can take. Could it take more? it might....but the odds say it will puke its guts all over the track somewhere between 3/4 and the mile marker.
Bottom line is if you want to build it for a 200 HP shot of nitrous COMPLETELY DISREGARD ANY THOUGHT OF A BORING OR STROKING IT.
Oh, and you're welcome.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Paul2281
Expert Class
Posts: 147
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posted December 16, 2011 06:33 AM
What type of progressive controller were you planning on using??? I`ve heard a lot of good with the SCHNITZ PRO SERIES 2...It`s got a lot of variable programs,timing ramping up or down,nitrous ramping up or down and anything in between....
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Shane661
Needs a life
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posted December 16, 2011 07:24 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 16 Dec 2011 15:29
I believe that Jim Owens was "close" to 200 hp of spray, and he ran the bike at Bonneville. Vincent Hill and Jim Owens engines are/were both stock bore and stroke.
However, the only team that I know of running a big stroker AND big nitrous is Wolf Racing out of South Africa? And that is just for the 1/4 mile. Gary on the board here has run a 1375 with I believe a 70 shot, but he did have problems. It hauled him down the mile at 210 mph first, though...and Gary is a big guy.  Another resource you could check with is Adams Performance. They have fielded some very fast stroker and/or nitrous 12R's
You might want to set your performance goals, and then build the bike to suit. A hp number doesn't really mean anything if it doesn't run the numbers you want, right? Either way, good luck with whatever you decide. 
Shane
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busaeater01
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted December 16, 2011 07:35 AM
Thanks guys. i was thinking about a Schnitz controller, NMS 1000, or a NOSWizard controller... I apologize if my post sounded like I was going with a stroker crank for sure, because i'm not. I just wanted to hear if anyone had success with a stroker and a big shot. I know a big bore is not the way to go. Hopefully I can get a hold of one of Muzzys 84mm billet turbo blocks, that would be ideal, if not, looks like i'll stay stock bore/stroke. Thanks again!
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 16, 2011 08:19 AM
quote:
NOS1290 had a 3 mill with a 90 shot....BOOM.
he told me 120 wet. the motor dropped a valve. I have been using the 3 pistons that survived in dads bike. but a 3mm is not a good choice for big shots IMO, too thin
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 16, 2011 08:21 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 16 Dec 2011 16:22
quote:
I However, the only team that I know of running a big stroker AND big nitrous is Wolf Racing out of South Africa?
Australia. I believe they were up to a 150 shot. I talked to Dave quite a bit when I was setting up nitrous on my bike. but 1/4 is a lot easier on parts than LSR.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted December 16, 2011 08:26 AM
no idea on a ZX-12 ,
but if you are asking in general terms go right to the king of nitrous , Guy Caputo
http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/news/person_of_the_week.html
"They blew up many motors during their learning curve but Guy said it was Mike’s genius that allowed him to brag about it since 2005."
what kinda budget do you have?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted December 16, 2011 08:26 AM
quote:
quote:
NOS1290 had a 3 mill with a 90 shot....BOOM.
he told me 120 wet. the motor dropped a valve. I have been using the 3 pistons that survived in dads bike. but a 3mm is not a good choice for big shots IMO, too thin
In 2005 I was told 90...things change.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
busaeater01
Parking Attendant
Posts: 29
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posted December 16, 2011 12:24 PM
thanks for the info
i've got some of guy's parts on my 12. not trying to set any records for lsr, so wouldn't be trying to kill the engine, just have some fun. i'll mostly drag race it.
i'd like to keep it under 8k with trans build, but want a quality builder, so... i guess we'll see.
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