posted April 21, 2011 07:37 PM
Can't decide Need Help I'm going to try and be detailed as possible. I am having trouble deciding if I want to keep my 09 GSXR1000 or go and buy a Busa or ZX-14. Here is the story.
I live in Houston, TX. Been into the dragracing scene for a while with cars, never bikes. Sold my Corvette and bought a New 2009 GSXR1000 last October. Didn't know what I wanted to do at first. Just wanted something cheap to have some thrills on. Went to a test-n-tune at the track and had a blast. I was dissappointed in my times but went back for a second time, ran about the same times. I took the bike to a local shop and had it lowered 1.75 inches in rear, 0.5 inches in front, went -1 on front sprocket, put swingarm extensions on, 4inch stretch, Strapped the Front, and had the shop tune the stock suspension.
My times on the stock setup were:
60ft's were in the 1.9x's-2.0x's.
330 ft's were in the 4.9's - 5.1's
1/8th mile was 7.2's-7.4's at 107-110mph
1/4 mile was 10.8x's, 10.9x's at 134-136mph.
After the mods
60ft's were in the 1.8's Thought I would see 1.7's with a few 1.6's
330 ft's I'll update as soon as I find the slips
1/8 mile was in the 6.8's-6.9's at 111-112mph
1/4 mile was in the 10.3's-10.4's at 137-138mph.
My stats before the question. I am 27, 6ft tall and weight 250lbs. I am looking to lose some weight and get down to 220lbs, but for now will just stick with 250lbs. I've only been to the track 3 times so I know there is a ton of room to improve my driving skills. I felt like after I did the mods and went back to the track this last Saturday I was still aprehensive about lauching to hard so I know my 60ft's could be much better and my 330ft's and so on.
These are my goals and what I want in my bike or whatever bike I decide to get. I ride 90% of the time on the street and would like to go to the track 2-4 times a month. For now I don't want to do any motor work, just a bolt-on bike that I can enjoy on the street and take it to the track. My goals I have in mind for what I would like to be able to run at the track is low 9's, of course I know that won't happen right off the bat but with more seat time and experience.
My question is this. Being a bigger guy, would it be smart to get rid of my 2009 GSXR1000 now while I don't have much money in it and get a Busa or ZX-14 or keep it and start adding hp bolt-ons, and if the answer is to get rid of it which bike do you guys recommend between the ZX-14 and Busa.
Thanks for any replies and if it would be easier I have no problem talking on the phone about this if someone could point me in the right direction of who to contact.
posted April 22, 2011 06:15 AM
So heres the problem, its hard to find direct answers to direct questions because it depends on a lot of factors. Now before I give you my 2 cents I'll tell ya a little about myself.
Im 43, 240lbs not dressed. Been street riding 25 yrs and been drag racing about 14yrs. Most of my riding is street and I get to may be 3 races a year. I raced my stock street bikes ranging from fj1100's to my 05 gsxr1000. Bough a Zx12 and liked it so much that I sold it and got a Zx12 with a carpenter engine with the big bore kit that makes 200 horse at the crank and wouldn't trade that bike for anything on the market right now.
So first of all I'd buy either bike, the 14 or busa, both are great with lost of go fast parts available for later on mods. I sold my gsxr for a stock 12 and never looked back. My 12 was faster than my friends zx10 and anothers gixxer 1000 and despite what you hear and read, those bikes will not leave you behind on the twisties because people seem to think they"don't handle" bull shit. I've never had to apologize to anyone for holding them up. They are great street bikes that are great in ever respect. They do however make far greater drag bikes. Yes you can dress up a zx10 or gsxr to go fast but its harder to do and not as reliable when you start leaving hard or add power adders. 10's and gixxers are 'road race bikes" made light to turn fast. Start adding nos or turbo and you"ll blow them all to hell....easier than a 12,14 or busa would.
Going fast at the strip is awsome but if your bracket racing then consistency is a must or you'll find yourself on the trailer early and not making passes. You have it right when the first steps are to get the bike "slammed"..(.lowered, lenghtened and strapped). Gearing is a personal thing and although I got some advice from here,,, I went lower than most people. Where you are heavy like me, to get a good 60ft your bike needs help moving the weight. my gearing is down 2 in the front and up 4 in the back. Some people think thats excessive but I get little wheelie with my 7" extensions and my 60ft is low 1.50's,,,haven't got in the 40's yet but working on it. Im at 10500rpm in sixth through the traps and 149mph. My 160lb nephew went 153 on my bike on the limiter through the traps. His 60ft wasn't as good as mine but thats just the difference weight makes.
Everyone here will tell you to be patient and seat time cures all. It takes practise to leave really hard pass after pass. Anyone can rev and shift but launching is different. I remember when I sold my gixxer 1000 complely stock that I could wheelie at 120mph,,,and then going to my 2004 zx12> I was use to racing completely stock street bikes that wheelie, and have to be launched easier,,, then I go to a zx12, slammed....sitting at the lights with a Zx12 piped, power commander, geared to the nuts and holding it at 7500rpm and pretty much dumping the clutch,,,,,,,big mental hurdle....everything in me said she was coming over backwards in a hurry....oh ya and at the time I was running a 7 inck slick that did not spin once heated!!! but you work throug it.
Once you get your 14//busa and slam it and figure out what gearing you like theres 2 things I would recommend you do right away...get a air shifter!!! best fun you'll ever have. Holding the throttle wide open on a geared big bore and banging through the gears is a lot of fun. You will also pick up at least 2 tenths. Then a 2 step would be next. Setting your RPM and leaving at wide open throttle(wot) will bring your 60ft down a lot. I struggled with my first 12 to get it in the 9's...ran 10.00 after 10.00 and couldn't break into the nines to save my soul!! The next weekend I put an airshifter on and 1st run off the trailer I ran a 9.7 (finally!!) After that put a 2 step on and lowered my 60 to the point where a bad run was a 9.7 traded for the zx12 with carpener and now run 9.3's.. its a 8.90 bike with a lighter rider,,,not me which sucks. like to 150lbs every race weekend..lol.. it takes me about 1 and a half hours to change my bike from steet to strip or back again. Bolt on extensions are great, they come off easy and then raise it back up on the rear dog bones. Oh yes I forgot, I dont have the front of my bike lowered, I just strap it down in the front and leave the strap on all the time. I tighten the strap before a run and loosen it after each run so I don't ruin the suspension. Also you will need a slick or what most people run are shinko ultra soft street strip tires..They hook up really well. I gave up the slick when I started using these. Now if you lower and use a slick, the bike is going to leave a lot harder so you will ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO GET A DRAG CHAIN!!!! do not attempt to race your modified bike without b/c a stock street chain will not handle the stress and you WILL break it. A broken chain can bust your engine cases wide open so this is a MUST!!!!
Hope you get something out of the "book" I wrote...lol.I spent the time b/c I hope it helps and we have the same backgroung with the bikes we ride and how we ride them.Also I found that whenever I asked a question here most people were nice to give information but didn't give enough detail. So hopefully I helped a bit> If ya have any questions feel free to ask and good luck!!
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
posted April 22, 2011 06:42 AM
I really appriciate the response. I've also been talking to local guys and they have been saying the same, that for bigger guys the Busa/ZX-14 just seem to work better. I've been trying to read up as much as possible the last few weeks. There's definitely more aftermarket for the Busa and I like the looks better, but I keep hearing a lot of people say the ZX-14 is a great bolt-on bike with a great clutch and a lot of low end power. I've read a lot of post where people say if you're just going to do bolt-ons get the ZX-14 and if your going to do motor work get the Busa. Right now I have no intentions on doing any motor work and will just do bolt-ons so that is where I'm trying to decided if both bikes will respond about the same. One last thing. Is the ZX-14's clutch that much stronger or durable then the Busa, I keep hearing that.
posted April 22, 2011 09:47 AM
If it's so close that you can't decide, you might take a look at both of them on the used market. Just an idea. I got mine used and then added to it.
____________
07 Green and Black, How fast is fast?
203 for now. Limited $$ = limited HP.
quote:If it's so close that you can't decide, you might take a look at both of them on the used market. Just an idea. I got mine used and then added to it.
From what I've read on Brock's Performance and I don't have full access so I don't know if there is a lot of new information I'm not reading but when he did his trials with the ZX-14 and Busa they seemed to run very similar times with the same modifications. I guess it just comes down to cost and preference. From everything I've read they both seem to perform really well.
posted April 22, 2011 01:27 PM
Since your a car guy, then I'll say it like this...
If you had a choice between a big block or a small block what would you choose?...That is the same comparison between any 1000 to a 14 / Busa...
For your weight the 14 or Busa is a must, they have more torque to pull you out from the launch...
The 14 has a better clutch for street riding and your occassional drag strip day or if you bracket drag race on a tight budget...The 14 goes faster with less mods...The Busa needs the Brock clutch mod before you put it on the drag strip, the 14 is good to go from the showroom...The 14 clutch is smoother & has more feel then the Busa's on off clutch action...But if you have Big $$$ and want to go real fast with a giant motor or Turbo then get the Busa...
Kawasaki's are faster but you need to know what it needs to go fast & how to ride it...The Busa is more forgiving and just about anyone can go fast on one...
posted April 22, 2011 02:00 PM
I got the 12 because I wanted to be different...Seems as though everybody and their brother has a Busa,or a ZX14 nowadays.....I even got a blue 12 just to be different....I`m just not into following the crowd so to say.....It`s still a fast bike.....
posted April 22, 2011 02:12 PM
I love my blue 2002 zx12 and will never get rid of it...
I'll tell you guys this, my lowered Drag Race 12 is 61 inches long and a 2008 lowered stock wheel base Drag Race ready 14 does the same ETs as the 12 but with a little less RPM...Yes with me riding each bike...
posted April 22, 2011 02:46 PM
Edited By: almost_les on 23 Apr 2011 00:50
do you want to be fast or do you want to learn how to extract the most performance out of a bike? anybody can hop on a big bike and run nines withing a few weekends. if you stick with the smaller bike,you will learn more about how to make a bike faster. after you've got all the basics covered, then get a bigger bike.
another thing to remember about modifyting the bike is that it does not make it any quicker. things like stretching it and lowering it only allow it to be quicker. the most important thing that needs to change is riding technique. i've seen a lot of guys (myself included) drop and gear a bike only to run the exact same times as before. its not until you start getting more aggressive that the times will drop. unless you are pinned right out of the hole, you're not usng all the power available, so what good does it do riding a bike with more power, when you still have a lot left with your current setup?
posted April 22, 2011 03:39 PM
almost_les...when you say smaller bike what are you referring to?
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
posted April 22, 2011 04:21 PM
1000cc vs 1300cc
hell, even 600cc. i've learned more about launching riding on my buddies 600's than i ever did on my 12r
posted April 23, 2011 05:10 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Apr 2011 13:37
quote:
My question is this. Being a bigger guy, would it be smart to get rid of my 2009 GSXR1000 now while I don't have much money in it and get a Busa or ZX-14 or keep it and start adding hp bolt-ons, and if the answer is to get rid of it which bike do you guys recommend between the ZX-14 and Busa.
You have a lot more ET left in that bike.
At 240 lbs suited I was able run 1.60 60 foots on my girlfriend's 2003 GSXR 1000. That bike was sitting at around 61" wheelbase, I believe. I was able to run 9.90's on it, and footshifting...and I am not a good footshifter. Keep in mind that your bike has more power than her tired 2003!
I really learned a lot on that bike. Here is a video from a few years back when I was first breaking into the 9's. My technique is not very smooth in this video, but I was just starting to get aggressive. The bike was also way undergeared for my weight (since she rode it most of the time):
Imo, keep working with what you have for now. You will learn more about setup, technique and clutch control on the 1000. When you do make a switch to a bigger bike, what you have learned on the 1000 will really pay off!
Here Racheal is on the same bike, a couple of years later:
When she first started riding it she was up in the high 10's, if I recall! Practice, practice, practice!
Shane
PS. Now you have me tempted to take that old 1000 back to the strip next week. I am 250+ lbs suited right now....but I know a lot more about setup and technique now. It might be fun...I found the 1000 to be a blast to ride! If do take it back, I am going to change the setup some, in order to suite a larger rider. My prior best on it was 9.91.
posted April 23, 2011 09:10 AM
Im with CrotchRocket.
We can debate which is best but at the end of the day everyone has their preferences> If money or time wasn't an issue then maybe the 1000 guys have a point. I've owned both and the simple facts are:
Big Bore is easier to ride and easier to go fast on.
BigBore are keepers, not spend money on a 1000 then graduate to the next level.
BigBore is just plain faster
1000's are harder to drive
1000's break easier once modifying starts...( clutches are ..omg a pain in the ass)
1000's take more money to go fast
at the end of the day theres a reason why the fast guys choose busa's and 14's
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If it has wheels or tits its bound to be trouble!!
posted April 23, 2011 10:03 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Apr 2011 18:30
I learned more in 20 passes on that 1000 than I did in 120 passes on the 12R...
I wouldn't consider a "big bore" the "next level" over a 1000. Well-ridden 1000's are fast as hell. I've watched them run over 14's and Busa's many times. Rider skill is the biggest factor that separates the fast and slow guys at the track.
Less can be more when you are trying to learn. I've been as quick as high 8's on my 14...but I think I made bigger strides, learning-wise, on the 1000. Basically it seems like everyone agrees that it takes more skill to ride the 1000 fast...that is a plus in my book, if you are trying to learn.
posted April 23, 2011 11:22 AM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 23 Apr 2011 22:55
for me comparing a 1000 gixer to a zx12 was sort of close to comming out except the 12 had more torque but a bit less than a busa i played on at times.
most busa riders when we swapped said i had more launching skill cause i had to use the clutch and motor and the busa guy just got rid of it.
the 1000 rider threw my front way up every time using too much.
you will learn more finess on the smaller bike.
the smaller bike will use up parts (clutch) faster.
a zx14 or busa will make a poor dragracer look good.
a zx12 or gixr 1000 will make a poor dragracer look slow.
i like the big block comparison also. i my self am a bigblock guy.
i have a stock crank 440 solid flat tappet cam running low 10s.
my small block friends have stroker cranks special intakes for special heads full all out roller setups heads ported as much as possable.
i say keep the bike you own and develop your self more. you will not kill clutches till you are killing it to the 330. but have a bunch of spare steels and frictions on hand. change the oil and filter a lot to keep the clutch junk out. when you are riding the wheels off it then decide on the stroker big bore gsxr1000 setup (which haul ass) or go to a bigger engined bike and take what you learned and maybe go faster and maybe not.
my gsxr friend says why should he get a busa that is 100lb heaver (.5 slower) with the same hp or less in the stock engine configuration? he is going to race a friends busa this season. i bet he goes fast on it. his times on a gsxr1000 2001 with cam mod are mid 9.3s. he is the man on the clutch. it will be fun to see how a busa runs under him.his total package is 570lb to my total package of 680lb.
have fun when it becomes un fun take a step back for a while.
we all can tell you how to do it. but go to the track and we all will mess up pulling out. you just need to get someone to help you with the basics and only you can go from there.
i think lee cycles in N.C. charges a bit over 5000 bucks for a 200hp gsxr1000 setup. you give him the bike with a exhaust and power commander and you get it back built.
posted April 23, 2011 11:46 AM
I really appreciate all the replies. I think I am going to keep the bike for right now and just keep trying to improve at the track. I know I have a ton of room for improvement so I'll see how far I can take this bike and then next year I'll get a Busa or ZX-14. That should give me enough time to decide on which big bore bike to get.
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posted April 21, 2011 07:37 PM
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