KZScott
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posted April 01, 2011 06:24 PM
oil system mods
ok, i see a lot of talk about sending cases ect away to be modified in high hp applications. my understanding is to bias more of the oil flow towards the bearings, and raise overall pressure. is this correct? nobody likes giving out secrets 
where would you restrict oil flow? by how much?
are there any areas that you would "port match" or drill out?
oil squirters. plug the 2 off, run the 2 oem and spray 2 pistons, or add 2 and spray all 4 pistons? in the past ive added 2. seems to be working well on dads bike. i like the idea of cooling all the pistons off, but it may be robbing a lot of oil?
shim relief valve?
balancer is gone with a Muzzy dummy shaft
Muzzy dry sump oil system on 02 cases
looking for 300+hp
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 05:47 AM
On my 14 cases they did restrict oiling to the transmission, using epoxy. There has also been a mod to the squirters, from the picture it looks like they were restricted or blocked off....I can't tell since I didn't see them prior. I haven't seen the cases in person, I only have a couple of cell phone pics. Maybe I can post them up later.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 06:00 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Apr 2011 14:00
Here they are:
I'm sure there are some other things, but these are the pics Steve sent me. I will know more when I take a look in person.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 06:06 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Apr 2011 14:11
More ZX-14 stuff (repost of stuff from my thread):
High volume oil pump gear
Muzzy billet oil pump cover:
This cover should seal better than the stock part, which is known to leak in some cases.
So, at this point my oiling system is stacking up like this:
Modified engine cases by Adams
High Volume Oil Pump Gear
2" Adams Billet Oil Pan (has added capacity over stock)
Muzzy Billet Oil Pump Cover
I am still undecided on just how much oil pressure I am going to run. I am either going to buy the billet 110 psi relief, or make a little fixture to shim and test an oem relief. I have never been sold that 110 psi is really needed, but they sometimes run that and more on the Busa. I would like some increase for an extra margin of safety, I'm just not sure how much.
Shane
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Compton
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posted April 02, 2011 07:38 AM
interesting! thanks
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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1badzx12r
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posted April 02, 2011 08:47 AM
don't forget getting rid of the stock balancers and adding the billet shafts to increase oiling ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 08:52 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Apr 2011 16:52
quote:
don't forget getting rid of the stock balancers and adding the billet shafts to increase oiling ..
Yes, actually Adams modifies the stock shafts for you when you get the case mods done....I forgot about that.
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billeason
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posted April 02, 2011 01:04 PM
mods
quote:
Here they are:
I'm sure there are some other things, but these are the pics Steve sent me. I will know more when I take a look in person.
Shane
.Hey shane did they block all the piston oilers? Also it looks like the epoxy is channeled in the groove to the c/s and not blocked off.
I often wonder why kaw oils that shaft at the bearing race on the end of the c/s like they do'' its one hell of a designed leak wright there..............
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bill eason
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 01:07 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Apr 2011 21:09
quote:
Hey shane did they block all the piston oilers? Also it looks like the epoxy is channeled in the groove to the c/s and not blocked off.
I often wonder why kaw oils that shaft at the bearing race on the end of the c/s like they do'' its one hell of a designed leak wright there..............
I'm not sure about all the oilers; I'll ask Steve the next time I talk with him.
When I called Adams before they did the work, they didn't give a lot of detail. Something to the effect of, "We do some stuff that keeps them from blowing up.". 
Shane
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KZScott
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posted April 02, 2011 06:10 PM
thx for the pics Shane 
looks like they plugged off the squirters with a bolt to me. did you mention that this will be LSR or is this a "drag" mod? i would think that the pistons would get hotter without being sprayed over a long duration?
interesting way to restrict oil to the trans. looks like less than half the flow with that grooved epoxy
does anyone think the head gets too much oil, or is that one place where more is better also?
HV pump for a 12 anyone?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted April 02, 2011 08:02 PM
Well, I am not sure that Adams has done any LSR stuff. That is always a concern; will it work for 1.5+ miles? You can bet there will be plenty of discussion about what works on the Busa prior to final assembly. I know that similar mods get done to the Busa, and Busa's with modded cases are thrashed in LSR.
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entropy
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posted April 03, 2011 01:33 AM
if you are going to mess with oil pressure, do yourself the favor of logging oil temp.
i've messed with oil pressure alot, but oil temp rules oil pressure.
like shane says, how much pressure do you need?
too much apparently takes hp and does it gain anything in terms of longevity?
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KZScott
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posted April 03, 2011 01:21 PM
well Karl, whats the "rule" you learned from DaveO? 10 psi per 1000 rpm?
so I "need" 116 psi at rev limit?
doesnt the oem relief valve open around 80ish psi? I need to test mine....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted April 03, 2011 02:33 PM
that's the rule i learned, yup. but 90psi seemed plenty.
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2000redrocket
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posted April 03, 2011 03:44 PM
i herd that the prostock cars stopped living by that rule of 10 per 1000. seems that that are staying to around 60psi if what i hear is true. they do not want to waste horse power on excessive oil pressure.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 04, 2011 03:50 AM
We also do porting to the oil pump passages in the cases. I don't have any pics, sorry.
With the stock oil pump gear, guys are restricting the flow to places that don't need as much oil, to divert the extra volume to the crankshaft. The tranny has roller bearings so little oil is needed. If you run ceramic bearings even less is needed.
The dummy balancer shafts don't need any oil. Or just weld up the hole in the shaft.
The squirters are not needed if you are running the rod bearings on the loose side because you are creating more windage from the extra flow threw the rod bearings.
The high volume gears we had made by Robinson add more volume to raise the whole pressure curve. This will make restricting for diversion unnecessary.
I think a bump in peak oil pressure of 20 psi to 95 psi is enough for a high compression stroker motor. Remember the zx14 has more bearing area than a Busa. Well most Busas.
Some busas are running billet cranks and the ZX14 rod bearings for the added area.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted April 04, 2011 06:57 PM
Jim, does a dry sump affect any of this?
btw the bike Im inquiring about is a 12 using 02 cases
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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dougmeyer
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posted April 05, 2011 04:54 AM
Scott, with the exception of blocking the balance shaft, your dry sumped engine wouldn't benefit from any further mods. There is no comparison between the flow/pressure/windage control you have, and a stock system.
That's why you have the dry sump!
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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KZScott
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posted April 05, 2011 05:36 PM
thanks Doug. whats your take on adding the extra squirters?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 06, 2011 04:46 AM
quote:
Scott, with the exception of blocking the balance shaft, your dry sumped engine wouldn't benefit from any further mods. There is no comparison between the flow/pressure/windage control you have, and a stock system.
That's why you have the dry sump!
+1
The dry sump trumps all.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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wrongway
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posted April 06, 2011 05:10 AM
quote:
Jim, does a dry sump affect any of this?
btw the bike Im inquiring about is a 12 using 02 cases
I am not sure about bike motors .... but the nascar guys started using piston squirters when they went to dry sump systems. If there was little or no windage, there was not enough oil thrown up to the wrist pin. First they tried EDM'ing a hole thru the rod from the bearing to the wristpin to force oil up there , but I think they gave up on that and just used squirters. Maybe the cylinder walls needed some more oil thrown up there?
At any rate,,, i would be careful about blocking off the squirters ,,, they might be there for good reasons.
Roy
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dougmeyer
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posted April 06, 2011 05:50 PM
The oil squirts cool the underside of the piston crowns, not there to oil the cyls. Commonly found on endurance racers, air cooled aircraft engines, pretty much all diesels, anything running long stints at high power.
KMC obviously felt the pistons needed some extra cooling, but I wouldn't add to it unless there was evidence of need. Your dry sump scavenge system will get all that oil out of there so the windage effect is minimized.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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KZScott
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posted April 07, 2011 04:56 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 8 Apr 2011 00:59
well the reason i added the extra 2 in the past was because KMC only squirts oil at 2 of the 4 pistons ( i cant remember if its 1 and 3 or 2 and 4). the pic above is dads upper case i added the 2 extras to so all 4 pistons get equal amounts of oil. i ordered the factory oil " nozzle" P# 92062-1086, and drilled/tapped the case. it looked like the case was cast as if it was intended to have 4, but only 2 were done from the factory. his bike hasnt had long durations of full power, but its been going 2 seasons now and we had a 50 hp dry setup on it this yr (1/4 mile). his bike has the Muzzy dummy shaft with a home fabbed cut pan
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 08, 2011 07:41 AM
I think a turbo bike or heavy nitrous land sped racing application is a perfect candidate for oil squirters. If you look at the bottom of the pistons you can tell the piston temps. you should not see any black coked oil burnt on the bottoms. some tan or light brown is OK. there's also heat paints you can use.
For drag racing the heat soak is minimal so I don't see a problem blocking them off.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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