KZScott
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posted October 16, 2010 05:53 PM
logging afr or egt
if you had to pick one combo, what would it be? (or if you have option 3 please list it and why)
1 LC-1 after the collector and 4 thermocouples in the primarys
or
4 LC-1s in the primarys and 1 thermocouple
I had an LM-1 and LMA-3 on the bike. I believe the LM-1 is worn out/broken. I just got a DL-32, LC-1, and XD-16 gauge from lowflyer... wondering if i should bother adding extras.
what would you do? 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted October 17, 2010 10:20 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 17 Oct 2010 18:20
after 6 years of paying attention, i have not heard on a single case of someone getting tuning info out of EGT's.
A friend running a 125shot on a high CR 1427 ran 4 O2's and 4 EGT's on the headers.
he made it live and ran 8.20's? i forget.
sooooo
KZ, I URGE you and Randy to mount EGT's (and then share your results so i can finally see a reason to mess with em)
I do know someone with a BIG turbo who is running 4 EGT's to monitor injector health.
Basically i don't even see a reason for running 4 AF's unless you are shooting big nitrous or a big turbo.
Even then, i have no knowledge.
There are soooo many things to focus before elaborate & expensive monitoring.
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Shane661
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posted October 17, 2010 10:27 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 17 Oct 2010 18:29
I would install an 02 bung in each header. That way you can see how much you need to trim the cylinders for tuning. You need not run 4 02 sensors at the same time, imo.
4 EGT is just for safety, imo. If you do partial runs with nitrous, and see the temps creeping at your target a/f...then you know to make adjustments. Or, you could see if one cylinder is doing something crazy. A misfiring cylinder might show up pretty quickly.
This is just my plan, and it may not be the best one. I do have the TC-4 setup and a DL-32 sitting here. I'll leave it to the experts to add more thought and suggestions.
Shane
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KZScott
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posted October 17, 2010 12:21 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 17 Oct 2010 20:22
currently i should be able to log AFR at 2 places as i have 2 sensors, and the LMA-3 and DL-32 can each log 1 EGT. so i could do 2 places for each without really buying anything else...
Im temped to get a TC-4 if i spray the motor i build for next yr. maybe run 2 widebands in the 2 section of the Brocks SW?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted October 17, 2010 01:48 PM
Edited By: whitehendrix on 17 Oct 2010 21:48
well, i recall Mr. Meyer stating that EGT operates on a bellcurve in relation to A/F. where you can be rich or lean and a1t 1500*F.
so, i would opt for A/F i think..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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Shane661
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posted October 17, 2010 02:00 PM
quote:
well, i recall Mr. Meyer stating that EGT operates on a bellcurve in relation to A/F. where you can be rich or lean and a1t 1500*F.
so, i would opt for A/F i think..
Well, think of this...
Take two engines...one producing 300 hp and one producing 600 hp. Both tuned to an a/f ratio of 12.8:1.
Which one is producing more heat?
How much heat can the engine and cooling system absorb without danger?
Where does the unabsorbed heat go?
How would you know?
I'm sure someone will clarify this, and/or tell me I'm stupid. But I think EGT is indicative of something.
Shane
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 17, 2010 04:36 PM
4 simultaneous O2 sensors was next on my list on the 12, tune indiv cyl.
Decided not to do it bc plugs always loooked pretty much the same.
Cool experiment, tho.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted October 18, 2010 05:55 AM
Don't want to butt in too much, Karl you can always have Andy sniff each individual cylinder and trim a little as needed. After that I don't think there would be that much benefit at the track. Especially if you use nasty fuel that's hard on those O2 sensors. Replacing 4 is kind of expensive.
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dubious
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posted October 18, 2010 06:38 AM
Edited By: dubious on 18 Oct 2010 14:41
EGT's react much faster than O2 sensors.
I was told an egt could catch a motor before it would burn up, whereas a O2 sensor data logged would show you when it burned.
O2 sensors are pretty big to put in a header tube without restricting flow, whereas an EGT is much less obtrusive.
One problem with egt's is that in order to tune on the ragged edge with them, you will burn a piston in the learning experience. Placement is critical relative to combustion temperature, and until you test how accurate your placement is, you will need to melt some aluminum.
I always place mine 6" from the exhaust valve ( or piston on 2 strokes) and tune for 1125F.
I don't like melting aluminum, and don't mind leaving a few HP on the table doing so.
Personally 1 afr sensor in the collector, and 4 egts' is my plan for turbo.
Egt's are very good tools for nitrous or any form of forced induction, where temps are critical
now just need a device that can kill the spark or injectors, maybe pull timing or dump a wastegate, so we aren't just logging a melt down, but rather preventing one
thats my 2 cents.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted October 21, 2010 01:59 PM
doub i did find a gismo that you could put on a afr setuf that you can set to shut a relay to kill the bike when a what ever voltage is reached determined by you. they are out there.
but there are times when egt cools down and may trick you into leaning on it and give a false reading and then a hole.
scott before you go egt do as much reading on using it as possable and i hope you can talk with someone that tuned with it for a long while.
around me usually it is only the methonal guys using egt.
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