johns
Expert Class
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posted December 20, 2002 03:24 PM
Muzzy cams
I sent an e-mail to Doug asking about results on the new velosity stacks and got a reply from dave saying doug is on first vacation in ten years. he also said muzzy now has zx-12 cams, springs and titanium retainers. says they make good hp to past 13,000 rpm. he also said rob is developing new exhaust system to go with cams and 1317cc billet big block and piston kit. when i asked how you could take advantage of that 13000 + rpm power peak he stated they would soon have a harness to piggyback theyre MMS (muzzy management system) on the stock ecu. by the way he also stated they got 3 to 4 hp out of the stacks. where you get the hp depends on which stacks you fit. sounds like some interesting stuff is coming our way. cant wait for the indinapolis dealers show in febuary.
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
  
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ZHooligan
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posted December 20, 2002 03:35 PM
Thanks for the info. I was sure that I had read a post from Rob Muzzy saying that cams were coming. Good news.
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krexken
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posted December 20, 2002 06:06 PM
Cool! Can't wait for the new goodies to come out.
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fastestr1
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posted December 20, 2002 10:57 PM
3 years out and we are finnally going to start catching up with te Busa on parts.
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Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
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MadMike
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posted December 21, 2002 06:09 AM
We need more 12's at the track!!
Mad Mike
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entropy
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posted December 21, 2002 07:54 AM
quote:
We need more 12's at the track!!
Mad Mike
Yeh!!!!! more 12's!!!! Specially with fat guys riding them. TFA Rocks!!!!!
I waiting on my Interstate Calender because it features TFA's most famous member!!! 
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addisonzx12
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posted December 21, 2002 12:08 PM
What's interesting about the Muzzy cam's is, when I personnally talked to Doug Meyers about cams at the Chicago auto show a couple of years ago he said that the cams they tested did not produce any more power. I found that a little strange & had some WEB hardwelds made anyway, seemed to work for me. I wondered what changed? Maybe these are prostock type cams? Super peaky & really not that great on the street?
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johns
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posted December 21, 2002 02:08 PM
there will be more information on the cams soon, I hope. I am personally only looking for good street cams that will work in my 1270. The Muzzy 1270 combination has been reliable (over 15000 miles so far), and the H/P is slightly higher now than at 1000 miles. I wish I could have reached Doug as his responses are always more complete. Addison I am also curious about what has changed in the last 2 years. Rob Muzzy seems to be a very conservative guy when it comes to what he sells for the street. They may have had other priorities early in the development of parts for the 12 and not tried that many cam profiles early on. I got the same answer from Doug as you got about the cams when I asked him about aftermarket stacks versus my stock ones that I had modified per his instructions. He said they had tested the aftermarket ones (Bears I presume, although he didn't identify them) and saw no advantage at that time over modified stock stacks. I personally trust Doug Meyer, he has never steered me wrong when I sought his advice, so I will wait until he tells me the new cams are a good combination in a street 1270 motor.
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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MadMike
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posted December 21, 2002 04:10 PM
It will be going out right after christmas!!
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VincentHill
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posted December 21, 2002 04:52 PM
Johns, I also Trust Doug Meyer. What you said he stated about the Stacks, is the same thing I also heard attributed to him. Now, I hear that their stacks make the same 3 to 4 Hp another person claimed theirs made. The Short Stacks look very simular to the other's person Stacks. This is where I have some confusion? (Either they do or they do not make HP.) Visual HP mounted inside an Sealed AirBox, would not make sense to me. The .1 gained in the 1/4 mile and the 4 or 5 mph on top, must come from somewhere?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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johns
Expert Class
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posted December 21, 2002 05:46 PM
Vincent are you speaking from personal experience with Bears stacks? I don't get a chance to get on the site as often as I would like so I am a little out of date. Has anyone to you're knowledge tested the stacks back to back on a dyno, or at the strip? My 1270 with the modified stock stacks has consistently made from 195 to 199 SAE corrected H/P on two seperate Dynojets over a two year period. The last runs were made at KWS motorsports in Charleston with Kevin Hunt doing the tuning last month. Like you I will not buy them just because they are pretty. If someone can show me they work I will buy them in a heart beat. If Doug Meyer assures me they are an improvement over modified stock stacks thats good enough for me.
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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ra12r
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posted December 21, 2002 06:45 PM
I don't see alot of accountability for previous statements of "FACT"!!! If in my line of work the facts changed as much as they do here from the "experts", then I would be considered a "_ ier"!!!!! Remember how super bike mike was crucified and that anything larger than a 1270 bore would not hold up but crack between the walls.................well now Muzzy is selling the same bore that they said would not hold!!! Although, I am probably just making this up,,,,,,,,,,RIGHT?!?!?!
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ZHooligan
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posted December 21, 2002 06:55 PM
Isn't the bigger bore for a billet block set-up? I don't think they are selling bigger pistons (then the 1270 pistons) or recommending such for stock blocks.
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cowboy
Pro
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posted December 21, 2002 08:49 PM
quote:
I don't see alot of accountability for previous statements of "FACT"!!! If in my line of work the facts changed as much as they do here from the "experts", then I would be considered a "_ ier"!!!!! Remember how super bike mike was crucified and that anything larger than a 1270 bore would not hold up but crack between the walls.................well now Muzzy is selling the same bore that they said would not hold!!! Although, I am probably just making this up,,,,,,,,,,RIGHT?!?!?!
I agree with you.Everyone else's stuff don't work but Muzzy can copy it to perfection??lol
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mrfast
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posted December 21, 2002 09:24 PM
ZHOOLIGAN is correct guys,the 1270 is it with a stock block.
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MadMike
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posted December 22, 2002 05:08 AM
Z is definatly correct the larger is on the billet block, and I have heard of a few people who have board their stock blocks out further and had them crack. I rember what doug said to me about the stacks, that untill they did some intensive testing, they could not know if it was going to improve performance or not.
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VincentHill
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posted December 22, 2002 08:25 AM
The Problem to me was the statement was made "AFTER" Testing!
My Humble testing showed that on a DJ150 about 1.8 Hp with the Akra. On the DJ250 4.9 with the Hindle.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ZHooligan
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posted December 22, 2002 11:40 AM
 Edited By: ZHooligan on 22 Dec 2002 11:55
The reality about testing is that the facts are the same bike on the same dyno on the same day does not read the same horsepower everytime. Not at all unusual to see a 5 horsepower swing. I can say that I seriously doubt anyone other then perhaps Muzzy has had more 12's on their dyno then Swft and I on ours. Just between us and Necromancer we have 4 12's personally. We then of course have numerous other 12 owners as customers. There is a range of consistancy but it varies. When it comes to arguing over a few (1 to 5)horsepower it is crazy. I can roll a 12 up on the dyno properly warmed up do 4 runs (it will take that many to get it cleared out and it is likely the 4th run will be the best. Take that same 12 and let it set for a half hour or 15 minutes or three hours and make four runs and the horsepower and torque will be different. And in regards to the bearstacks I can also say that I installed them in my 12 with the components provided. They did not make more horsepower, infact they made less. I then pulled them out and made gaskets so that they would in my opinion seal better to the base of the air box. And guess what I then saw some improvement. (for the record the Muzzy stacks sealed perfectly without any modifications or fucking around) So before a bunch of people start arguing over a couple of horsepower I would challenge people to go to their local dyno operator, put their bike on the dyno and show me ten dyno runs with the same results. Swft and I between us have over 500 power runs on 4 ZX12's and 8 engines.
What I have learned from these site are that people like Doug Meyer and Rob Muzzy should adopt the style of the others building parts and engines etc. for the 12. Just sell their services, offer no information in a public forum and for certain don't go on the record with their information.
The next time somebody has a question I'd suggest you ping Lee at Lees Performmance, or Mike Velaso of MVR or one of the other guys occasionally spoken about on the boards, or for that matter Hindle himself, or Kevin at Two Brothers, or the owner of Akropovic. Of course you will get no response as they are not offering public opinion and have no intentions of getting their heads handed to them. While on the otherhand Doug and Rob do respond. And I for one am glad to hear from them. I value their opinions and understand that having paid nothing for them I am entitled to really nothing more then what I paid for them.
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entropy
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posted December 22, 2002 12:15 PM
ZHooligan,
all I can say about your post is:
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN !!!!!!!!!!
I will be driving from Texas to Pac NW this summer for the "2003 Entropy Family Vacation", and I would be happy if you'd let me buy you a beer!!!
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ZHooligan
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posted December 22, 2002 12:40 PM
I would love to.
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ninja12
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posted December 23, 2002 12:32 PM
I second that ZH.
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johns
Expert Class
Posts: 205
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posted December 23, 2002 02:08 PM
ZH I would agree with everything you said particularly the last paragraph. I know everyone is not going to like Muzzy products but a fair person should respect the fact that they are present and accounted for on this and other forums to answer questions and sometimes complaints about what they sell. Apparently you have dyno tested both the Bear and Muzzy stacks. What size motor did you run them on? Were you able to conclude anything (positive or negative) from dyno testing them both, other than the Muzzy stacks fit properly out of the box?
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2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
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cowboy
Pro
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posted December 23, 2002 04:25 PM
quote:
ZHooligan,
all I can say about your post is:
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN !!!!!!!!!!
I will be driving from Texas to Pac NW this summer for the "2003 Entropy Family Vacation", and I would be happy if you'd let me buy you a beer!!!
Entropy,How far north are you going?Will I be able to buy a TFA member a beer also?
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ZHooligan
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posted December 23, 2002 08:14 PM
Contributing to the TFA condition! Just remember no lite beer allowed!!
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blubyu
Expert Class
Posts: 209
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posted December 24, 2002 07:18 PM
Cams
I've had 4 Kaws ZX's so far (ZX-6, 2 ZX-9's and a 02 ZX12) From my experience, all the Cams in the ZX model are pretty hot. Very little was gained from switching the cams from a stock motor. Now Big Bore motors may different but for me a my 12, I'll stay with the stock cams.
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Tow whatcha blow
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