ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 14, 2002 09:18 PM
Ok, so what is the verdict. Will the heavy springs help when using Nitrous?
Do we have to chose between nitrous or shifter?
Anyone having good luck with both?
Maybe Ryan can help on this one.
  
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted December 14, 2002 10:35 PM
you might consider the fact that all kill boxes do not operate the same some boxes have a floating kill from coil to coil we are running 4 coil bikes unlike the 2 coil setup certain boxes work well with nitrous (check with mps) it will normaly only have time to kill 1 coil during a cycle between shifts each coil will have its turn so between shifts i dought that each cyl is only killed one time which this process is very fast . you dont want a box that kills the complete ignition like alot of guys have out there you can hear the explosion on there bikes every time they hit the button. there is also rpm switches that could be used to turn off the nitro sol. before your desired shift points. it is possible to design a safe operating sys. that would be ben. anyone using nitro shuld stay as low as possible depending on motor sys design
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted December 14, 2002 11:12 PM
Heavy springs will help prevent valve float at high rpms.
quote:
Ok, so what is the verdict. Will the heavy springs help when using Nitrous?
Do we have to chose between nitrous or shifter?
Anyone having good luck with both?
Maybe Ryan can help on this one.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted December 15, 2002 12:17 AM
quote:
there is also rpm switches that could be used to turn off the nitro sol. before your desired shift points
This is what we were talkin about earlier...the amount of time you would have to shutoff the nitrous solenoid to make sure the airbox is not full of nitrous is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the time it takes to shift.
This would effectively negate the benefits of nitrous for much longer than most people want before and after each shift.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted December 15, 2002 11:51 AM
I have a dale walker power shifter. It does the ignition when shifting I am told. However I am going to use the power shifter to shift and it will negotiate the YOSH EMS shifter button for me . I always wanted to know the answers to these questions. I think I will get a button that you have to hold in for the nitrous to be sprayed. When I get ready to shift I will let off of the NOS, hit the power shifter button and then hit the NOS button again. I would like to get something that turns the NOS off like 200 rpms before the rev limit. This would be safe no matter what happens. Does anyone know how much the Heavy duty springs cost?
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted December 15, 2002 11:53 AM
So has there been any problem with electric shifting and only using 40 horsepower shot? I still footshift my bike with the small dryshot and havent had any problems that way so far. But I want to put electric shifter on it but not if its gonna go Kaboom, plus this winter I guess I will finally build the 1270 it looks like..
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 01:56 PM
Zxlnt.. If you are going to build a 1270 motor, and spray her, I would install the HD valve springs. I wish I did it when I had the motor apart
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted December 15, 2002 01:58 PM
I used an electric shifter all season with a 40 shot and had no problems at all. Well.... thats not exactly true cos I recently sold the shifter to a friend. When my tranny blew-up the guys at the garage reckon it was down to the shifter. The electric shifter was a little temperamental and if not set up correctly could miss shifts (mainly at high rpm). The problem was with the barrell (that you use to fine tune the shifter). It was positioned close to my gear selector and sometimes I accidentally hit it with my left foot throwing it out of synch. They said too many missed shifts at high rpm caused my tranny to fail. I think this year I will go back to foot shifting. It sounds safer!
Ninja Missile
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 02:13 PM
 Edited By: kzz1 on 15 Dec 2002 15:10
Stock valve springs, air or electric shifter, NOS = KA BOOM 
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted December 15, 2002 03:33 PM
I still believe it's the popping during shifting that's doing the damage. Mine has been on the limiter more times than I care to remember with the nitrous on and no problems yet. Mine doesn't pop with my iginition kill either.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted December 15, 2002 03:33 PM
Maybe even "Kawa BOOM" 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 04:08 PM
Edited By: kzz1 on 15 Dec 2002 16:23
quote:
Maybe even "Kawa BOOM"
  
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 04:13 PM
quote:
I still believe it's the popping during shifting that's doing the damage. Mine has been on the limiter more times than I care to remember with the nitrous on and no problems yet. Mine doesn't pop with my iginition kill either.
Air shifter or electric? Guess it does'nt matter from the replies. Must be in the ignition kill time and or the use of heavy duty springs. Are you running them? How much dope?
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted December 15, 2002 05:58 PM
I use the stock springs on the stock intake cam which is installed in the exhaust, aftermarket springs with the bigger aftermarket intake cam. I'm using a Holeshot cutout box triggered by the footshifter. My bike is 200hp n.a and I'm guessing around 230hp with the 34 pill in a dry shot.
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crazybill
Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
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posted December 15, 2002 10:10 PM
anyone tried setting it up to autoshift so you never hit the limiter ?
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 10:24 PM
quote:
I use the stock springs on the stock intake cam which is installed in the exhaust, aftermarket springs with the bigger aftermarket intake cam. I'm using a Holeshot cutout box triggered by the footshifter. My bike is 200hp n.a and I'm guessing around 230hp with the 34 pill in a dry shot.
I'm not familar with the Holeshot cutout box. What kills the ignition or does it? Stock springs on the exhaust. Ok, other members have responded by saying they too have stock springs and spraying with no problems. Others are reporting malfunctions but are using shifters. Sounds like the culprit is in the ignition kill time not the springs when spraying?
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 15, 2002 10:27 PM
quote:
anyone tried setting it up to autoshift so you never hit the limiter ?
Hmmm!!??... good point but I would think with an autoshift , you still need to kill the igniton?
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justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
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posted December 24, 2002 10:36 AM
Bottom Line Fellow/ladies: You have to pay to play.....
I think the dropping of valves, steems from over reving. The air shifter is a problem within itself. airshifter/shiftlight, spells explosion(to me). Most guys don't understand that they need to know their bike and learn to watch the tach instead of a light. Some people say my clutch slip and I hit the shifter, but it wouldn't shift.
I think you really need to pay attention to your bike and what's it's doing.
Save yourself some hardache and continue foot shifting...... This way you will always know what your bike is doing.....
Oh yeah, Merry Christmas........
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted December 24, 2002 11:16 AM
Has anyone dropped a valve or even spit a shim while not running NOS.I experimented with the limiter(no NOS)in my garage with a couple buddies(and too many beer ofcoarse)and sat on the rev limiter for about 20 seconds with no problems.I did this more than once also.That motor came apart not to long ago for a checkup and looks brand new still.The problem is when the air shifter doesn't shift and your running NOS.When you hit the limiter i believe it kills fuel and spark so when you do finally get it in gear your loaded up with NOS and POP.I have also not heard of anyone getting a shifter to shift reliably on ANY REAL AMOUNT OF NOS.The ones that seem to be going fast have tranny work done.This is just my opinions and what i have personally seen.
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kingzx12r
Expert Class
woo hoo
Posts: 223
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posted December 24, 2002 12:00 PM
I agree.  same thing I've said before about the airshifters are ok to 200 hp.
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It ain't easy being me.
coolrunning12@hotmail.com
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted December 24, 2002 02:00 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 24 Dec 2002 14:01
Shootout bikes have air-shifters and...WAY MORE THAN 200HP...
LOWER YOUR SHIFT POINT (light) if your worried about hitting the limiter... 
Also...Air shifters won't shift (every time) if the clutch is slipping...OR...if the tire is spinning...
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted December 24, 2002 03:15 PM
Edited By: cowboy on 24 Dec 2002 16:14
Kcadby,I'd never thought i'd say this man but I disagree.Yes,shootout bikes have way more than 200hp and no they don't shift with the airshifter (reliably)untill they get there tranny reworked.
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KZZ1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted December 25, 2002 04:13 PM
quote:
Also...Air shifters won't shift (every time) if the clutch is slipping...OR...if the tire is spinning...
Ditto!!!!
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted December 29, 2002 11:50 AM
Alright,I called lee's a few days ago and ordered the springs,after explaining to him how mine got hurt,he told me of how many 12's were having this problem-nearly every one,that's right,and I believe him from even what I've read on these boards,he went right to the subject of my air shifter/mps.He explained that the bucket under shim set up of the zx12 is a bad combination when you use an mps(ignition kill).It kills the ign. but not the fuel,puddling or loading it up until the ign. comes back on-creating the explosion(popping sounds during shifts),this explosion in conjunction w/the weak springs and bucket under shim set-up lead to what happened to me and from what he tells me,nearly everyone else(floating a valve).The fix,heavy duty springs(as Entropy and a few others have already done)and according to Lee,a fuel pump kill(relay running to the fuel pump),which will momentarily kill the fuel,taking enough load off the motor to use the air shifter-TRASH THE MPS!!I am not sure if someone also has covered this topic w/this fix,but from what I have read,everyone was pretty squeemish about the popping with air shifter/mps and the 12-aparently,rightly so...But hey,I think for this problem,this is the fix.
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kingzx12r
Expert Class
woo hoo
Posts: 223
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posted December 29, 2002 02:57 PM
Shootout bikes have air-shifters and...WAY MORE THAN 200HP...
LOWER YOUR SHIFT POINT (light) if your worried about hitting the limiter...
Shootout bikes don't have stock tranny's, I was referring to stock bikes or more precisely stock transmissions up to 200 hp. Sorry about that the mind works faster then the fingers sometimes. With nitrous you have to shift short even with tranny work top rpm spools up to quickly for close to redline shifting. Me foot has been shifting flawlessly so far hehehehe.
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It ain't easy being me.
coolrunning12@hotmail.com
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