aliveagain
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posted October 15, 2009 08:33 AM
heres mine
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Shane661
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posted October 15, 2009 08:37 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Oct 2009 16:43
Thanks Pete! You said stock head and cams for yours? Basically a stock motor with a 1427 kit and exhaust?
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aliveagain
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posted October 15, 2009 11:48 AM
Stock cams at 105/105 and stock head.I also have the Muzzy race pipe which added more hp then the Ti-force.14.8/1 compression.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Shane661
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posted October 15, 2009 11:51 AM
quote:
Stock cams at 105/105 and stock head.I also have the Muzzy race pipe which added more hp then the Ti-force.14.8/1 compression.
14.8:1...what kind of fuel do you run?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 05:46 PM
quote:
Jim, 220 STD? I'm trying to compare a few configurations here and I'd like to get everyone on the same page, correction-factor-wise.
Have your crankshaft journals been machined like Karl's?
Shane
220 SAE
No I dont have an offset crank. Its 60mm stroker crank.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 05:51 PM
quote:
a 1394 would be an easy swap for me(base spacer and retime the cams), but if im going over 1350cc i want to go huge  . i like pushing the limit and learning how this does or doesnt work. i may leave it as is depending on how my winter goes, but i like learning whenever possible
Jim, what would it take to get the starter clutch gear to be not in the way of a 60++mm crank?
If you want to self start the bike then you need to use 2 smaller gears and reverse the sprag gear and reverse the polarity of the starter.
Or use 3 gears and don't rev the polarity. I looked into it and sketched a design. but its just not worth doing.
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KZScott
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posted October 15, 2009 05:55 PM
if it would allow a 10mm crank, it might be worth it to a few guys???
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 05:56 PM
quote:
quote:
Jim, 220 STD? I'm trying to compare a few configurations here and I'd like to get everyone on the same page, correction-factor-wise.
Shane
Shane,
Good idea, but IMO not really possible to the level of precision you want, "mic-ing a brick" comes to mind.
1. Dynojet dyno results vary more than the BASIC difference between incremental engine sizes. Correction factors? another issue. Even the FactoryPro varies, although MUCH less deviation than DJ.
2. there can be a large difference in hp on 2 same sized motors; e.g. Pete's 196hp and Jim's 220++, both street 1427's. slight config differences.
3. I have seen a 30hp increase on my 1427 on a FactPro due to very small, incremental hard to chase config details.
4. small motors seem to make more hp/cc than big motors, Mikes faster than stink 1270.
5. fuels...
6. only way to really compare motor hp is the dragstrip (not LSR)
I know squat about anything but my 1427, but i have a huge amount of data on it.
Motor has been on the bench at least 25 times since mid 2007, prob 40-50 times to 4 different dynos (mostly Andy's).
All set up data carefully logged into a giant spread sheet.
Conclusion?
1. want mojo hp? go to Jim or other "out there" builder, or roll up yr sleeves and get ready for the long haul.
2. there are mysterious, voodoo things going on when trying to get the last 10-5-2-1% hp, sometimes not reproducible from notes.
all that just my opinion.
Very true Karl.
Tire temp and grip, fuel temp, oil temp, oil type, oil weight, etc, all make a difference.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 06:05 PM
quote:
if it would allow a 10mm crank, it might be worth it to a few guys???
I don't know what the max stroke would be. I just looked at what it would take to remove that starter gear. My guess would be about 3 more mm. The rods will start to hit elsewhere quickly. you have to grind the cases for 60mm and carrillos as it is. So you would have to weld the cases in several spots etc.
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KZScott
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posted October 15, 2009 06:32 PM
I have found a local tig guy that does excellent work  (you should see some of the turbo headers he has made...)
I did more digging through the forum. Wolf Racing is running the old Muzzy Prostock bike which is a 1498. Muzzy 87mm block and a 63mm crank but they are using a starter cart. they are also running stock rods as far as i can tell without problems. also std cam chain
so 63mm is possible, and you have an idea that would work to make it self starting.... now if we get around the 87mm bore, if only to an 88mm bore, thats 1532cc. that 1580 busa doesnt look so far away now ...the 1650+ bikes will never be touchable, but its way better than comparing a 1427 to a 1650
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 07:03 PM
Shane, here is an 08 busa and an 06 zx14 and my 1427 all on the same dyno. Also the same dyno as Petes chart.
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aliveagain
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posted October 15, 2009 07:32 PM
quote:
quote:
Stock cams at 105/105 and stock head.I also have the Muzzy race pipe which added more hp then the Ti-force.14.8/1 compression.
14.8:1...what kind of fuel do you run?
Sunoco up here sells 93 octane,which is what I use.However,I do put in some c12 ever so often.This is with the Muzzy ignition advance set at 0*. I will be trying some more timing when the bike starts again.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Shane661
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posted October 16, 2009 12:53 PM
quote:
Shane, here is an 08 busa and an 06 zx14 and my 1427 all on the same dyno. Also the same dyno as Petes chart.
Jim, I'm going to guess here...not a stock head and cams?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 17, 2009 04:26 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 18 Oct 2009 00:33
quote:
Jim, I'm going to guess here...not a stock head and cams?
Nope
Its my stage 2 CNC port and 1mm O/S valves with Bronze seats and guides. Its been bored for 28mm buckets and it has busa 28mm buckets in it. The cams are .443"/257 intake and .415"/252 exhaust. It would be about $3800 to duplicate the head and cams.
It really needs more compression thou with these cams. I lowered the static compression by .6 to 13.4 at the last minute so as to ensure the ability to be able to burn pump gas. Its a daily driver.
The above dyno pull was on Shell 92 pump fuel here in CT. All of our pump fuels here have methanol in them at a max of 10%.
I'll be dynoing it on the MRX-01 this week to compare the power. I'll have to re-tune the timing for the mrx-01 fuel.
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2000redrocket
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posted October 17, 2009 05:05 PM
jim jou sure do give me the itch to go all out. i am still finding et on my stock engine but am still going to try to do the stage 1 and your cam pick when i start working more and the bike is maxed out. if i can get a high 9.3x foot shifting as a 1200 i will be on top of the world. then of course i will want to go faster.
jim do you still have my number? i would like to talk to u about pricing to fix my indy heads on my duster with a bashed chamber. when are the PMs going to get fixed?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/ owner??????????????/
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 18, 2009 09:23 AM
Shop number: 860-274-0631 give me a shout during the week.
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