fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
|
posted November 03, 2002 10:46 AM
retarding for NOS
I know you should retard your timing -2 for every 25-40 but why and how much is to much. I have seen -12 before with a 100 shoot, so what is the norm?
____________
Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
  
|
ZRXDean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
|
posted November 03, 2002 11:07 AM
Nitrous makes lots of heat, which causes detonation, which melts pistons and breaks parts. Retarding the timing gets the combustion process started earlier - and preempts detonation. I retard the timing 12 degrees (from 35 total) for an 80 shot, which is conservative. Start by taking out a lot and work back slowly, checking ALL your plugs after every pass with a plug-chop - as you cross the line pull in the clutch and kill the motor while wide open, then push back to the pits and pull the plugs. They should come out easy, the electrodes should be sharp (no melted edges) and the ceramic should be white (no black specks). You'll need a magnifying glass and good light.
There's a great book by Ed Killar, a pioneering nitrous Pro Comp racer that is definitely worth reading - "Nitrous wars" all about using nitrous on bikes/dragbikes. Check Amazon.com.
|
fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
|
posted November 03, 2002 01:42 PM
I will be using 75 total jet size dry(80hp) and max the fuel table out at 45% with -6 on timing with K&N's which should make it richer than just srceens. Gearing is 16/46 and foot shifting, should be back in the high 8.90's.
____________
Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
|
ZRXDean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
|
posted November 03, 2002 02:13 PM
Sounds like a plan. I assume you've been talking to Wayne about the dry kit. He could give you a better idea about setting up the dry shot.
|
ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
|
posted November 04, 2002 05:23 AM
I am using the Schnitz dry kit with a 36 jet. When I bought the kit the instructions never mentioned anything about retarding the timing. The only thing they say is just add more fuel by way of the PC. Do you think I should retard the timing by -2 just to be on the safe side?
Ninja Missile
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 04, 2002 06:46 AM
Doing that will destroy your rideability when you arent on the spray.
however it certainly would be safer...as you probably are running around a 50 shot.
Are you running stock timing? or advanced currently?
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
|
posted November 04, 2002 07:24 AM
YCIS
The map I use when I am on the street has a 5 degree advance but when I use the spray I change maps and run stock timing. I recently pulled the top end and everything was in tip top order. Bores like new, valve clearances spot on etc, etc,.
Ninja Missile
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 04, 2002 07:49 AM
If your plugs look ok...then I dont see any reason to back off your stock timing on spray (unless you wanna be on the safe side).
However if you go up anymore (like im about to do) then Id pull a bit out.
Once the 46 jet goes in (my 47 turned out to be the wrong jet) then Ill be pulling 10degrees out on spray.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
|
posted November 04, 2002 09:01 AM
YCIS
46 jet? Is that safe with STOCK pistons?.
Ninja Missile
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 04, 2002 10:36 AM
*shrug....we will see wont we 
With enough timing retard...the colder plugs..and enough fuel...Im thinking it should be good for around 250ish rwhp.
I think the pistons would survive provided no detonation occours....we shall find out though.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
Lorcan
Expert Class
Posts: 327
|
posted November 04, 2002 02:16 PM
This isn't about detonation. Nitrous doesn't cause detonation. Detonation is an uncontrolled burn caused by too low octane fuel/excessive charge temperature/poor head or piston design. Increasing the inlet charge temperature increases detonation, reducing the temp decreases it. Nitrous decreases the inlet charge temperature. The reason you pull out timing is because the increased oxygen content increases the SPEED of the burn. Too much burn before TDC has a destructive effect on the pistons and rods. I've read elsewhere that nitrous causes excess cylinder pressure...for fuck's sake, cylinder pressure is HORSEPOWER! ProMods run 14-15:1 compression and shitloads of nitrous!! Using the right fuel, a good head and IGNITION MANAGEMENT are the keys. My 2c...
____________
810cc - 211mph: www.750turbo.com
|
Your Car Is Slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 04, 2002 04:12 PM
More nitrous + Stock timing + not enough fuel = detonation
I beg to differ on that nitrous doesnt cause detonation thing...as anything used to "excess" to increase horsepower will indeed increase the risk of detonation.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
|
posted November 04, 2002 05:56 PM
YCIS- put some C16 in it, pull about 8 degrees and spray a 46 dry on it and post the dyno chart 
|
Your Car Is Slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 04, 2002 06:13 PM
hehe...well...My goal was to reach the limits of pump gas
Itll get dynoed the next time im at kevins place...should be niiiice
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
|
posted November 10, 2002 12:42 AM
And how do you know what the limits of pump gas are? I mean the turbo bike a getting 300 hp on 93 so is that the limit.
____________
Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 10, 2002 09:58 AM
I dont....hence me finding out what the limit is.
We are talking about nitrous..not a turbo...and 300hp with a turbo on pump gas requires lowering the compression of the bike.
I dont plan on doing that.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
|
posted November 10, 2002 11:49 PM
Burn is burn weather it is with NOS or a turbo right? And with boost the 8.0 turns into 14.1 so lowering the compression at first is so it can go higher later.
____________
Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
|
Your Car Is Slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 10, 2002 11:54 PM
Think you are focusing on the wrong part of the discussion..perhaps you should go back and reread the thread title.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
|
posted November 11, 2002 01:21 AM
True but fuel and timing go hand in hand, but I am going to run 93 so -2 for every 40?
____________
Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
|
supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
|
posted November 18, 2002 08:40 PM
Hey Berg what will this 46 dry shot, -8 Degrees, and C16 show on a dyno? CURIOUS!!
____________
02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
|
Your Car Is Slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 18, 2002 11:35 PM
Im guessing somewhere near 250hp
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
Zx12RNinja
Novice Class
Posts: 59
|
posted November 30, 2002 09:20 AM
I've heard that the stock fuel injectors can only handle or spray enough for up to 225hp anymore than that and shes gonna be lean.
Is that correct?
____________
Lead, Follow, Or get the hell out of the way.
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 30, 2002 12:23 PM
Not according to the dyno chart.
A/F never got above 13:1 on the spray run...and was getting richer as the motor revved higher.
I believe also that you meant the stock fuel pump cant handle above 225hp....im pretty sure the injectors can handle as much as you are willing to give it (within reason).
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
|
posted November 30, 2002 09:05 PM
I am putting in a 1361 kit and odds and ends stuff right now. I found out that muzzy is not making a fuel pump upgrade for the 02 model so I guess I am screwed past 225rwhp? Man this sucks!!!!
____________
02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted November 30, 2002 09:09 PM
Eh...I really think you are fine with the stock pump...its obvious due to my dyno charts that the stock fuel system can deliver enough fuel to allow for 225hp (exactly what I pulled on the dyno).
HOWEVER that a/f is as rich as it will go as I cannot add any more fuel to the system (pc3 software already at 45% add)
A muzzy fuel pump is certainly on my next list of mods. Im curious as to why the current pump they make wont fit in an 02?
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC