entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 23, 2009 11:31 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 24 Aug 2009 07:34
Men's tools: a 2nd one that can make you happy
Yup, a very cool rod bolt stretch tool that'll put a smile on yr face.
Rod bolt stretch in thou@40#, 20min to do 'em all 
rod___F____B
1____4.4___4.6
2____4.6___4.5
3____4.6___4.7
4____4.5___5.2 (hmmmm... i'll be watching this one)
zero the gauge with no tq on the bolt
40# tq applied (sorry for the shitty pic, but you get the idea)
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woppi
Pro
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posted August 24, 2009 12:52 AM
#
woppi
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2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted August 24, 2009 10:55 AM
Much nicer than using a micrometer, eh?
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ZRXDean
Needs a job
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posted August 24, 2009 12:59 PM
Drool.
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osti33
Needs a job
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posted August 24, 2009 02:31 PM
Nice....
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted August 24, 2009 03:19 PM
We used one of those on mine.......
Very good to have around......
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chavcat
Zone Head
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posted August 24, 2009 07:06 PM
Karl - where is this available? Cost?
Thanks
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entropy
Moderator
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posted August 24, 2009 08:34 PM
Edited By: entropy on 25 Aug 2009 04:35
quote:
Karl - where is this available? Cost?
Thanks
Mike,
Dyer's Top Rods is the place, but i forget the cost:
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 25, 2009 02:45 AM
quote:
Much nicer than using a micrometer, eh?
absolutely no comparison, this tool is the tits, repeatable to .0001" and fast.
best of all, it fits on the rod bolts perfectly with crank sitting in the upper cases.
I always install pistons/rods in the cyl block, then block on upper case, flip 'er over then bolt rods on the crank. Using a micrometer sucked.
thanks for the tip, Tim! 
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chavcat
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posted August 25, 2009 03:51 AM
Thanks Karl - I'll look into this
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NINJA12
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posted August 25, 2009 11:36 AM
Very nice tool , but kinda pricey. $295.00
I'm not planning to build that enough engines to justify this one.
Karl you are going to have to stop teasing us with BIG BOY TOYS.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted August 25, 2009 12:27 PM
quote:
Very nice tool , but kinda pricey. $295.00
I'm not planning to build that enough engines to justify this one.
Karl you are going to have to stop teasing us with BIG BOY TOYS.
yep, tooooooo damn pricy, but really really satisfying to use!
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chavcat
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posted August 25, 2009 04:42 PM
Where is this available for $295?
Thanks
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NINJA12
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posted August 25, 2009 05:49 PM
karl's post has 1-800-top-rods.
If you get one let me borrow it.
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chavcat
Zone Head
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posted August 25, 2009 06:01 PM
Where did you find it for $295 as I heard from them it is $354 plus shipping!
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tcchin
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posted August 26, 2009 11:31 AM
If you don't like the $300+ price, you can always do like I did and make your own for under $200. Take one of these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/98401/10002/-1
and add one of these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#20695a34/=3cy5mn
http://www.mcmaster.com/#20835a72/=3cy74o
Note that the Lunati tool adds the extra spring to the outside of the indicator, instead of to the inside. This means that you can use any indicator you want.
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VincentHill
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posted August 28, 2009 08:26 AM
Karl, , That was the WORST Tool I have ever seen! I "Used" a Mic and now what!! Do you have NO Shame?
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Shane661
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posted August 28, 2009 08:37 AM
Karl, how can you be certain that the tool is parallel to the rod bolt?
Even using a micrometer, how can you tell if it is skewed slightly? Is it just a matter of making sure your are getting the minimum measured distance between the two points? Are the two ends of the rod bolt perfectly flat?
I know this is about as basic as it gets, but I had to ask. I like to try to eliminate human error as much as possible, so I am curious.
Shane
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted August 28, 2009 08:40 AM
The bolts are drilled on the ends by the manufacturer, and that centers the tool on the bolt.
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Shane661
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posted August 28, 2009 08:47 AM
quote:
The bolts are drilled on the ends by the manufacturer, and that centers the tool on the bolt.
Excellent. Thanks.
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Shane661
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posted August 28, 2009 08:49 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 28 Aug 2009 16:51
Ok, so one other question...
It appears that you have torqued the bolts, and measured stretch. And one is a bit off from the others.
I thought the purpose of measuring stretch was to make them equal; I thought the stretch was a more important figure than the torque spec? I thought that generally you did one or the other...set preload via a torque spec OR bolt stretch.
Again, pardon my ignorance here...
Shane
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted August 28, 2009 09:14 AM
Carrillo's procedures are not really very well-grounded in engineering theory or the scientific method. They suggest that you measure stretch/torque for one bolt, then apply that torque to every other bolt.
Elastic stretch and angular displacement are both very good indicators of preload, as long as the bolts are dimensionally identical. Assuming that Carrillo's manufacturing processes are more precise than their engineering procedures, I use a beam-type torque wrench to get the stretch I want and note the torque and angular displacement. If I'm getting applied torque values that don't seem to correlate to the stretch and angular displacement, then I know I have a problem with the bolt. However, if my torque reading is close to where it should be for the angular displacement, then I know that the stretch is close, too.
It's kinda ironic that you can invest hundreds of dollars in metrology equipment to install rod bolts accurately, yet the best torque wrench for the job can be sourced at Sears for under $25.
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Shane661
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posted August 28, 2009 09:19 AM
For the most part, would you say that measuring stretch (with the appropriate tool) is more accurate than said $25 torque wrench?
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entropy
Moderator
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posted August 28, 2009 10:01 AM
i'm thinking that stretch/torque is a good combo to assure that the bolts are in good health.
Bolt #4-back showed a greater stretch for the same tq as the other bolts when i built the motor in July. It is still well within spec, but i'm keeping an eye on it.
Tim, no way a craftsman tq wrench is as good as my Snapon; can't be. No way. Impossible.
The Snapon costs 10 times as much, so its 10X better.
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Shane661
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posted August 28, 2009 10:03 AM
quote:
Bolt #4-back showed a greater stretch for the same tq as the other bolts when i built the motor in July. It is still well within spec, but i'm keeping an eye on it.
So, it is the same bolt? How often do you have to change the rod bolts? What is the indicator of condition? Do you measure the initial length of the new bolt, and then compare upon disassembly?
Is there a spec for that too?
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