DR JOE
Expert Class
Posts: 352
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posted August 06, 2009 07:25 PM
Bad rod bearing
Ok guys, my bike had the #3 rod bearing fail and now I want to fix it and fix it right. So what has everyone else done that has had this same thing happen???
My bike is a 06 and a friend of mine called me last night and his 07 did the same thing, two ZX14 that had rod bearing fail. WTH is going on with the ZX14???
Nither bike has never had NOS shot thru it. So what is causing this to happen???
Doc.
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 07, 2009 04:47 AM
Dr Joe,
do you have any more info or pix? That would help with remote diagnosis
Karl
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ZRXDean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted August 07, 2009 04:54 AM
My rod bearing issues were always a result of oil starvation.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 07, 2009 06:10 AM
Get with marine crankshafts 714-549-2388!
Dave will get you straight.
Send the rods to Jim Y2kZX12 on this board.
Low oil, or dirty oil are the 2 things that cause most bearing problems.
Not saying that's your probem but I don't think there is a design flaw like some other bikes.
The ZX14 has proven to have a very good oiling system when the oil is maintained.
How many clutch pack have you burned? did you ever pull the pan to clean the pick-up?
How many miles on the bike? how many passes? how often do you change the oil?
What your AF look like? What fuels? What oil level do you run?
This information could help pinpoint the cause of your problems.
Now is a good time to build that big block or stroker.
If you are going to go back stock, I have fould it cheaper and faster to buy another motor and part yours out. Unless you do your own work, labor starts at $1000 and goes UP!
Good luck with the bike.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 07, 2009 06:10 AM
quote:
My rod bearing issues were always a result of oil starvation.
X 2
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 07, 2009 06:17 AM
x3.
Joe I replied to you on another post.........
As far as rods go.........
You do not HAVE to send them off. There are two thoughts on this......., both good.
If your rods mic out perfect........, they could be re used...... I have a couple of MM's old rods in my motor, and a couple of my old rods.......
If you go through clutches, the oil pick up sure could be it.....
Lots of variables.......
Good luck........
If you have any questions as far as building, there are a ton that will help you out.
it cant be that hard......, I did my own, with some supervision, and my daughter even helped drop the pistons in, etc.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 07, 2009 06:18 AM
BUY AN ENGINE STAND!!!!!! Well worth it before you are done.........
Get two or three large cafeteria type tables......., and tear it apart............
Have TONS of zip loc bags and a sharpie to mark EVERYTHING.
Send the tranny to Mark at RnD while you are at it........,
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 07, 2009 09:23 AM
I agree with 99% of what NOX says...
That last 1% is about engine stands; I had a very well made one and still hated it.
IMO a flat oil pan is 10X as useful as an engine stand.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted August 07, 2009 10:19 AM
I use a large cookie sheet for disassembly (to contain the oil and coolant) and a smooth wooden-top table for assembly. I've used engine stands before, and I probably would again (with some mods) if I had the room to store it between builds. I built my assembly table only 19" high with casters on each leg so I can sit my lazy ass on a pneumatic mechanic's seat the whole time. I found that hunching over the motor to set cam timing after twelve hours of cleaning and building got to be pretty tiring.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 07, 2009 11:28 AM
What Karl Says!
Second, ALL Water Cooled 4 cylinder Kawasaki Engines are "Prone" to #3 because of the Design. 1&2 have a very short distance to the Oil Pump via the Sump pick up. Look at the engine and the deep part o fthe Sump is right under 1&2. On the first engines, the tubing was "1" Inch long between the Pump and 1&2 feed but a 90 degree brazed in line about "6" inches long fed 3&4. During Wheelies, or Heavy Accel, if the pump Pick up is Ever uncovered, the First place to not get oil is #3 then #4, then #2 then #1
Keep the Oil level at the Top of the WIndow
Keep the Pick up Screen Clean (Only a real problem for Drag Racers that slip the clutch a lot!). I run a 6 quart Oil pan to "Help" avoid this problem.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 07, 2009 03:03 PM
quote:
I agree with 99% of what NOX says...
That last 1% is about engine stands; I had a very well made one and still hated it.
IMO a flat oil pan is 10X as useful as an engine stand.
Yes, at times, it is nice to have it on a flat pan, and on a solid table.........
But, it is nice to have the motor open and be able to get to everything when you need to........
Having a friend close by, to help lift is essential.........
I have woken Hollie up at 330 am, to run the jack to get it in the frame.......(tranny jack on a flat pan is the shit!) , and then sent her to bed while I hooked it all up......., then did a heat cycle at 530 am as the sun was coming up........., and only 12 hours earlier, Little Nox was helping put the pistons in, and helping torque the bolts, etc........
Also, depends on how you are building the motor, and what work is needed.......
LOTS OF ROOM AND A CLEAN GARAGE ARE KEY FOR A FIRST TIMER>>>>>>>
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
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Stuart Racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted August 07, 2009 05:14 PM
I hear ya.....Once I get started on an engine build I just can`t stop untill it`s done....I`ve tried to step away and go to bed...Just lay there thinking of what needs to be done, so I end up getting up and finishing it to the point I feel comfortable.....Thats cute, "little NOX helping you out.....I can just see it....
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 07, 2009 08:42 PM
As I mentioned in the other forum, check the oil pump plate clearance!
Kawi doesn't shim the impeller out enough, and when it hits the pump plate it burrs the plate and sends junk through the bearings
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 08, 2009 12:46 AM
quote:
As I mentioned in the other forum, check the oil pump plate clearance!
Kawi doesn't shim the impeller out enough, and when it hits the pump plate it burrs the plate and sends junk through the bearings
do you have any pictures?
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dubious
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posted August 08, 2009 10:25 AM
I will in a day or 2,
My new pump came in, and I will be pulling the old one back out.
I think i still have the original pump plate.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 08, 2009 11:34 AM
Lyle,
what do you mean by a "pump plate"?
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 08, 2009 01:33 PM
Hi Karl,
The pump cover plate, behind the clatch basket, on the zx14.
The pump is recessed for the end of the pump shaft, with a thrust / flat washer for the impeller. The problem is the cover plate is recessed too deep, and the impeller is able to run into the cover plate, and galls it up throwing debris into the oil at the pump, and also beats up the impeller!
Thats the new muzzy HD one, and its recessed even deeper! OUCH
The kawi manual doesn't give out specs or even mention checking the impeller clearance.
I will take pics and measurements tonight or tomorrow night when I tear into it again.
( daughter wants to go riding! LOL)
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 09, 2009 07:29 AM
Yeah, her nick name is little nox........
and she can run a torque wrench.......
I don't ever want her to not know what is going on, and all...., or get screwed by some shop when she takes her car in to get it worked on later in life........
She actually thinks the torque wrench is fun to use.......
And, she loves to watch Home Improvement.........lol
____________
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2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 12, 2009 09:05 PM
OK, here is the oil pump cover plate I took off mine with 10,000 miles.
Always had lots of good oil in it.
amsoil after 700 miles in the bike and changed every 1500 miles
The washer was not thick enough to keep the impeller off the plate.
The engine did not show any other signs of abnormal wear, or oil starvation.
The bearing wear was not bad considering how hard the engine had been run for 10,000 miles.
here is the new pump assembly, for comparison with the old plate.
When I find the old pump assembly I will post pics of how pitted it was from the shiut running through it.
I found 2 rod bearings that looked like they might have seen a few pieces of this shit.
I had the crank journals polished, when the bottom end was torn down.
Its actually worse than it looks, and the onset of damage like this only gets worse, kinda like a scorred cylinder, starts off small, then propogates until catastrophe.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 13, 2009 05:58 AM
Man, that sucks.........
Wonder if this is the issue a lot of guys are having, if it scars until it loses pressure, then......pop......
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42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
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AMSOIL
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 13, 2009 08:19 AM
BTW, I had the stock clutch in the bike and it looked really good.
I have never plugged the pickup, nor done extended wheelies.
The bike was street ridden only ( alot of extended high RPM in 6th gera albeit)
and only ever subjected to launches on street pavement.
I had to polish a couple crank journals, and found the same brgs had some shit imbeded in them.
This is the only source of loose metal I could find in the motor.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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DR JOE
Expert Class
Posts: 352
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posted September 04, 2009 02:39 PM
Well the shop just called and my crank is done, will pick it up on Tuesday morning and hope the other parts show up either Tuesday or Wednesday mornings.
Doc.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 04, 2009 02:42 PM
Plenty of time Joe. Good luck.
Do 3 or 4 true heat cycles, and you will be fine for next sat.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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Syed Leathers
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 09, 2009 06:21 AM
Joe, how is your progress coming?
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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DR JOE
Expert Class
Posts: 352
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posted September 11, 2009 07:50 PM
Well Guys tonight was do or die and well it did not work out, I ordered my parts and Mitch and me were working our butts off trying to get it done. Well when we got to the rod bearings we had one the was damaged, so that has sunk the boat for me making the race on my bike. So short of me finding another bike to ride, won't be there... Sorry guys I tried to get to together.
Doc.
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