dubious
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posted May 24, 2009 07:21 PM
2 stage lock up clutch ? adjusting it?
I am new to this piece of equipment.
I have a new MTC 2 stage, they suggest 0.100" to .0125" clearance.
I am getting .060.
My stack height changes the rpm it enguages, and the shimming the spring changes how aggressive it locks?
I guess I need to reduce the stack height to get the clearance?
Anyone willing to give me a tutorial on stacj height, shimming springs, and adding weight to the arms?
Would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Lyle
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dubious
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posted May 24, 2009 07:40 PM
Also, can I pull in the clutch at higher rpm?
The bike will be street ridden as well as strip, turbo 300-500 Hp depending on fuel tune and traction etc.
I need a lockup for sure....
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almost_les
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posted May 24, 2009 07:42 PM
 Edited By: almost_les on 25 May 2009 03:49
talk to nox. he's the lockup guru. here's the dumbed down kindergarten version:
if its a two stage with no stall springs, it starts engaging as soon as the wheel starts to turn.
shimming the springs changes the static pressure. this is the amount of force that the clutch applies with nothing is moving, or in a static state. its what gets the bike moving off the line. if you toss the lever and it leaves to aggressively, you need less static pressure, and vice versa for anemic launches. get it just right and all you have to do is cut a decent light and the clutch will take care of itself.
too much weight on the arms will cause a rapid increase in pressure and cause a wheelie or a bog. too little will allow the clutch to slip and kill both fibers and mph. multistage clutches are better since they can control when each arm sarts to engage, therefore, more precise tuning.
generally, a two stage has all the arms engaging at once, you need to be extended to keep it under control when doing clutch tossing launches
as for pulling the lever at speed, opinions vary as to whether you should or not (much of it depending on how the lockup is set up), but it will take more force as rpms rise.
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NINJA12
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posted May 25, 2009 06:17 AM
Dub ,
If you want to be in control of the clutch and use the lock-up to hold the power , you can set it with no weights and forget it. If you want the slider effect , talk to NOX
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 25, 2009 06:19 AM
What springs did you get with it? Blue super soft?
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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dubious
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posted May 25, 2009 11:41 AM
No springs with kit. Supposed to use the stockers.
Just .025, and .050 shims,
Its a gen1, 2 stage
I guess I will need to look at the stack and get the height around .100-.125
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natural selection.....
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 25, 2009 01:34 PM
Edited By: kawasakijockey on 25 May 2009 21:43
If you are not planning on throwing the clutch away the stockers will work. They are 65lb springs in the stock setup. If the MTC has the .220 spring reliefs cut into it, it will put the stock springs at 42lb each. The super soft blues are supposed to be 23lb with the MTC lockup. Just depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to chuck the lever go with the blues and shim them until it is where you want it. The .050 shims are 4-5 lb each of static and the .025 are 2 lb each. when used with the blue springs.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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NOX
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posted May 25, 2009 02:22 PM
All of my guages have never shown them to be quite that much on the static, as far as the shims.......
different guages may be different though.
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 25, 2009 04:41 PM
Nox, that is MTC shim specs for the blue springs. A guage would be a more accurate spec.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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NOX
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Posts: 3745
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posted May 26, 2009 06:30 AM
Yeah, I thought so too.
There is a WAY more accurate way of testing it.
You have to make a small tool to go in where a spring is......, to get the TRUE installed height of the spring, that tells you the exact static pressure, and that is what you work with, instead of what some guy on the phone tells you........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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dubious
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posted May 26, 2009 03:18 PM
I got a killer deal on a (20 passes used) gen1 slider too-$200! , but will get my feet wet on getting the 2 stage set up, then move on to the slider.
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Some are not worthy of the effort.
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 26, 2009 03:34 PM
How are you planning on using the 2 stage?
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
|
dubious
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posted May 26, 2009 03:47 PM
Drag race and street for the 2 stage,
I want it to be streeteable with the 2 stage. Basically I need the lockup for the HP, without a gorilla lever the big springs give.
What is the best way top set it up for the street?
I read the instructions from MTC but they are pretty vague... I need to order 6 thinner springs to get my stack height .100 -,125 from the weights when they are parallel to the pressure plate.
I am totally new to this.
What I understand is the slider/ multistage is strictly track use due to clutch slippage right?
So am I thinking right to set up the 2 stage stiff for the street.
The bike should start making boost around 3500 rpm, so I am thinking I could get away with an early lock like a stock clutch , and just have it tighten up with RPM and boost so the packs survive.
Am I right in my thinking?
Yesterday was a holiday, and today i was flying to work most of the day.
I should probably call MTC tomorrow...?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 26, 2009 04:07 PM
Edited By: kawasakijockey on 27 May 2009 00:15
Good luck getting a lot of info from MTC. Nice guys but they dont give a lot of good info imo.
You mean thinner steels for the stack height?
A slider is not streetable at all. Even at the track someone will have to come get you at the finish line. A multi can be streetable.
I forgot about you being turbo. If you have Brock's springs in it now and use them with the MTC, it should feel like stock springs because the spring recess will allow them to be almost a 1/4 inch longer in installed height. If you weight that MTC too much you will not be pulling the lever in at higher rpm. I know a buddy who had a hard lever at 7000 on his turbo busa. The MTC has heavy arms and they hold well by themselves without weight on milder hp motors. Unlike a six arm set-up where you can remove 3-4 arms, you have to do equal weight changes on all 5 for a 14's.
I dont have the MTC on mine but have been messing with the busa one. I was considering getting the MTC for mine but have almost got my Cycle Logic where I want it. It is a helluva learning experience for sure.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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dubious
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posted May 26, 2009 06:19 PM
Edited By: dubious on 27 May 2009 02:22
yes,
Sorry I meant thinner steels.
I only have .050" clearance right now, and they ask for .100 to .125
Funny thing is my clutch is stock,( I don't believe much in wasting the clutch on a bike with so much torque... I throw the clutch away and pin the throttle at about 4000-5500 and let it drive out of the hole )
my stack is not what is listed in the manual... I do not have the 2 thick plates listed, all are .103-.100 thick!
Thanks for the info on springs and shims,
I will have to try what I have and go from there, but the info you provided should point me in the right direction.
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natural selection.....
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Some are not worthy of the effort.
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kawasakijockey
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posted May 26, 2009 06:50 PM
The steels are all one thickness. The fibers have two that are different.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
|
KZScott
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posted May 26, 2009 06:57 PM
use the stock springs and go very light on the weight. ive heard the mtc is much more agressive than the cycle logic. if you want to get into fine tuning go lighter on the springs
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NINJA12
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posted May 26, 2009 07:28 PM
Dub ,
Try it with the current stack height, and no weights.
I think it will give you what you are looking for.
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted May 26, 2009 07:58 PM
quote:
Dub ,
Try it with the current stack height, and no weights.
I think it will give you what you are looking for.
It wont hurt anything to try it.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 26, 2009 08:34 PM
10-4
thanks guys
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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rquinn
Expert Class
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posted May 27, 2009 03:59 PM
Good information there
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RON QUINN
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starchild
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posted May 31, 2009 04:16 AM
alright need help deciding to use my lock-up mtc 2-stage -stock motor?. probably not needed the 14s clutch seems bulletproof. but it's here calling me.thinking no shims and of course stock springs. any opinions on this would be very helpful. thanks guys
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jay
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dubious
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posted May 31, 2009 07:44 AM
start off with stack height around .100 and .125 clearance to begin with I have been told
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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starchild
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posted May 31, 2009 07:54 AM
thank dub used it once last year, for a short time. but that was with a motor that had some issues. and this motor is alot stronger not sure i need it but damn do i want to use it lol
____________
jay
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted May 31, 2009 08:10 AM
with the stock springs it wont need any weights either.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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