Shane661
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posted March 19, 2009 10:08 AM
KLEEN Air, Re-Routed Crankcase Breather?
I guess it is a common practice re-route the engine breather to the Kleen setup. Presumably creating a lower pressure escape for crankcase pressure. Some say this will add hp.
So, it begs this question:
Does it work? Does the Kleen setup make enough vacuum to really be of affect? If not, I'd just as soon chuck the whole system and run a standard breather...
Shane
  
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entropy
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posted March 19, 2009 11:22 AM
Shane,
it does work to some extent (I had a FBG vac pump, got 3-5? hp on dyno), but on my 12 the oil light would flicker on at the 1/4mi big end when i dumped the throttle...
I did lose an engine to rod bearings
lotsa folks would dispute my conclusion; but i sold the pump...
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Shane661
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posted March 19, 2009 11:24 AM
quote:
Shane,
it does work to some extent (I had a FBG vac pump, got 3-5? hp on dyno), but on my 12 the oil light would flicker on at the 1/4mi big end when i dumped the throttle...
I did lose an engine to rod bearings
lotsa folks would dispute my conclusion; but i sold the pump...
That's interesting, Karl. I certainly won't dispute what you saw.
Perhaps a different oil pan setup would have alleviated the problem.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted March 19, 2009 11:30 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 19 Mar 2009 19:31
Just looked up the FBG....
Are they saying 14" of vacuum on a normal motor? That is quite a bit of suction. I don't know if that could affect oil return or not...but things are different in a 9-25 second run than they are in a 6 second run.
I don't imagine the Kleen re-route is going to cause much of a problem; I'm sure any gains are minimal. But if it's a couple of hp on top that is pretty significant.
Shane
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KZScott
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posted March 19, 2009 01:49 PM
Shane, i ran my crank case vent to the valve cover for the 07 season. no problems, no oil light flicker. i doubt it pulls nearly as much vaccum as the FBG pump. you cant log AFR that way though as it injects air in the exhaust gasses and dilutes them. i went with block off plates for 08 and put a one way valve in the pipe down stream of the O2 sensor (like you see on drag cars coming from the valve cover to the valve to the pipe) to get similar vaccum but still have the ability to log AFR. no oil light flicker, bearings looked good on teardown. lots of guys claim 2hp from it on a bike 
i may just run a puke tank this yr with a breather. its easy to make up 2 hp with spray
Karl, what pan were you running at that time?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted March 22, 2009 12:34 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 22 Mar 2009 20:37
Will the Kleen re-route give me suspect a/f readings?
Nevermind...I see you already answered that....
On the Turbo we just have a k&n for a breather. It nevers spews anything unless the oil is overfilled (tested to 12psi bootst so far).
Shane
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KZScott
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posted March 22, 2009 12:56 PM
even the stock emissions stuff can affect readings(pulls air from air box). you blocked that off last yr right?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted March 22, 2009 01:01 PM
quote:
even the stock emissions stuff can affect readings(pulls air from air box). you blocked that off last yr right?
I didn't do anything with it last year; I am probably just yanking it all and installing a breather for the start of this season.
Once I get the tuning right, I can always try doing the vacuum re-route and see if I gain any mph.
Shane
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KZScott
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posted March 22, 2009 04:46 PM
your mapping would have been richer than recorded then. you were getting about 13:1 AFR on the data logger right? i wonder how much it was off? some one should do an expirement! 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted March 22, 2009 04:48 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Mar 2009 00:49
Near 13.7:1 at the top of 6th....
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KZScott
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posted March 22, 2009 07:59 PM
hmmmm. i wonder how much air was being injected into that? dyno guys plug them when they map a bike
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Johnnycheese
Pro
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posted March 23, 2009 02:51 AM
at wot the Kleen does not add air
but on the oil light you have to remember at what pressure the light comes on at vs. what you need to make a motor live
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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Shane661
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posted March 23, 2009 02:54 AM
I'm a little confused. If it is not doing anything at WOT, then how would re-routing the breather to it do anything of value?
I must be missing something here...
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KZScott
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posted March 23, 2009 03:27 AM
i think i am too i didnt have issues with it
someones gotta do a test with a wideband! i think redrocket did some stuff like this... maybe he could help or do a few test runs with and without? i would like to do a test, but it will be awhile before i have the chance.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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NOX
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posted March 23, 2009 05:51 AM
interesting thread, as I am thinking about getting a wego....., and have the crankcase vent mod........
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almost_les
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posted March 25, 2009 03:33 PM
Edited By: almost_les on 25 Mar 2009 23:36
seems as though the only way to know for sure is dyno it with the plates blocked off to get an accurate tune, then reroute the breather to the kleen setup and run it again... the trick is finding someone wanting to pay the extra dyno money just to see if it even gets the extra 2 hp. OMHO the extra 2 hp isn't worth the risk of engine damage so i plan on running the regular evac system this year and just get the covers welded shut. maybe put a breather and catch can on it for some high speed stuff since the ram air is gonna cancel it out at full speed.
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