Y2KZX12R
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posted March 12, 2009 03:17 PM
What we need in a motorcycle...
I'll let everyone else add to the list. But I have a few things on my wish list.
Direct Injection.
Turbo I4 400cc bikes like the FZR400, CB-1, etc. (280# wet)
A proper V4 big bore bike
Electronic Suspension
Carbon Fiber frames, swingarms, wheels etc.
Reprogramable ECU's (with software  please)
Hydrostatic Drive (no trannys, shafts, gears, clutch, etc.)
Dry Sump Oiling
What am I missing?
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Y2KZX12R
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted March 12, 2009 05:40 PM
y2k i know the no shifting thing would be great but i do not think a hydrostat trans would be good for a over the road getting thrashed. the I.H. tractor a 800 something had a hydro and it was a poor tractor except for pulling wagons. other wise great idea. just a lot of hot oil that thins out the hotter it gets making more slip.
how about a variable displacement big engine.
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whitehendrix
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posted March 12, 2009 10:18 PM
right.. i loathe for a killer V4 or vintage-style exotic like the old CBX mill or.. what was it.. oh.. benelli sei i think.. i want to say there was other very ahead-of-the-times motors and strange combos.. i think honda had an 8 speed trans in one two-stroke bike at one time?
or the V5 out of the moto GP bike.. something different and cutting edge..
look at their NSR-500.. what an amazing piece.. wheres that kinda drive to do something different today?
other than yamahas crossplane crank, theres been no REAL "revolution" in bike technology for close to 10 years or better.. EFI is nothing new.. turbos had their sadly short limelight in the 80's.. CF and exotic metals aren't new.. just wher ethey're used is left uncharted still..
i've seen a CF framed duc 999, but the cost was about $80K. sheer sex on whels tho.
as far as something i'd like.. howabout a case vac system? i've seen it add 20+hp on BBC's on boost. GOTTA work on a bike as well.
direct injection is nice tho..
boost- yay.
gear drive cams have proven worthy but lets out the ablilty to run different gaskets or mill heads.
VVT might be interesting..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
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posted March 12, 2009 10:48 PM
Ti inlet valves and inconel exh valves. BeCu seats
factory turbo on a 1500cc I4. think 750 turbo with todays technology. 700hp off the showroom floor on pump gas with water meth injection. 500 on pump gas if the windshield washer fluid runs out. 1000 hp on c16 and water/meth for racing applications... oh and looks like the A 12R 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted March 13, 2009 04:48 AM
Yea hydrostatic robs a bunch of power, but offers infinate gearing..... An electric drive would be to heavy. Looks like were stuck with chains.
"look at their NSR-500.. what an amazing piece.. wheres that kinda drive to do something different today?"
I agree theres not much varryance from the pattern lately.
Scott, 1000 hp bike????
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Y2KZX12R
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted March 13, 2009 05:21 AM
Hey, I'm not that picky.......................I just want that big forced induction Kawi jet ski/watercraft motor spooned into a ZX-10 frame. Maybe spooned into a ZZR Frame as well for the touring crowd.
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NOX
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posted March 13, 2009 05:23 AM
BIG gears, with 6 dogs on the gears...., and no 5 spring clutches......
and bores that are not attached to the freakin cases
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Y2KZX12R
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posted March 13, 2009 08:09 AM
quote:
...and bores that are not attached to the freakin cases.
Yea I dont know what Kawi was thinking with the zx14. I think it hurt overall sales bacause of that.
Its fine for a 600 or litre bike, but the big bikes need room for expansion.
They need to seperate the bore spacing also. It would be an acceptable trade off for a little added weight.
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Shane661
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posted March 13, 2009 08:26 AM
quote:
quote:
...and bores that are not attached to the freakin cases.
Yea I dont know what Kawi was thinking with the zx14. I think it hurt overall sales bacause of that.
Its fine for a 600 or litre bike, but the big bikes need room for expansion.
They need to seperate the bore spacing also. It would be an acceptable trade off for a little added weight.
Jim, would you say that the single casting is a stronger unit for unlimited hp applications?
Just curious....
Shane
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aliveagain
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posted March 13, 2009 08:39 AM
The SB8 bimota had a partial carbon fiber frame.
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/475709/
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted March 13, 2009 10:16 AM
How about a biodiesel electric hybrid with a place to put my purse?
Wait, no, I mean what about a direct-injection, two-stroke, V5 literbike with traction control, wheelie control, launch control, active suspension and a license plate?
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KZScott
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posted March 13, 2009 01:13 PM
theres issues with the mono case/block with the head bolts. its best for them to screw into the case not the block
yeah Jim, because some is good, more is better, and too much is still not enough 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted March 13, 2009 01:45 PM
quote:
theres issues with the mono case/block with the head bolts. its best for them to screw into the case not the block
Can you elaborate on this, Scott?
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KZScott
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posted March 13, 2009 02:41 PM
its something either Jim or Tim wrote about awhile back Shane, i cant remember the exact details, but something to do with things distorting out of round or away from being flat.... i dont think its much of an issue until you are getting really really serious about making power. hopefully those in the know will explain
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinZX14
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posted March 13, 2009 05:18 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 Mar 2009 03:05
quote:
quote:
theres issues with the mono case/block with the head bolts. its best for them to screw into the case not the block
Can you elaborate on this, Scott?
Shane Mono block is stronger and will hold more HP .. What scott is talking about is by tourqing head bolts in the deck it can make the block (walls) out of round and cause a ring seal problem ...There is an easy fix so this will not happen . What we have done for years to V8 blocks is use a deck plate .. This plate is tourqed to the block before the block is Bored or honed ... This way when you bolt the head back on the block ( walls) are round ...
Now for the NOX man ... I would like to see someone make a 6 bolt hub for the zx14 .. That should make him happy ...
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Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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whitehendrix
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posted March 13, 2009 10:50 PM
hell.. if we're going for a DREAM bike.. haha.. gimme tractable linear power under variable boost. maybe a sequential twin setup.. dual A/Rs and trims. razor sharp handling, brembo monoblocks, ohlins front and back, slipper and lockup combo, SS lines, an uber light weight.. maybe in a V configuration.. maybe that VVT or at least adjustably cams and adjustable timing.. or a programmable ECU anyways.. top-of-the-line steering dampner, advanced OBD and datalogging capabilities, backcut gears, a badass crank and cam combo, a cassette trans for quick gear changes instead of splitting the case. maybe ceramic wheel and trans bearings. diggin scotts idea od BeCu seats and inconel valves.
i'd want a bike thats as comfortable going 220 at maxton as it is doing 180+ at summit point and tearing thru the twisties with 600-style flickability and handling.
i almost ALMOST wanted to try to build something out of a 2 stroke V6 out of a large outboard when i used to wrench on boats.. always thought they sounded badass.. especially out of the water and the exhaust wasn't muffled. seems like too much to make a vert/ shaft engine run horizontally.
word round the campfire is a local shop has build not one, but i think 2 or 3 1000HP ZX-14's sucessfully.. never got any more word then that sadly i think on spray and a GT35R snail and headwork.. not sure what else.
i almost bought a dragbike frame last summer.. heard about a craxhed 14.. never happened obviously (otherwise you'd read about and see me build!!) but i won't rule that out.
i'm very confident i can get 1000 out of a 14. i think it's actually a somewhat reasonable number from what i've calculated. maybe 1150 at the wheel is not out of the realm..
and ya jim.. you're right on the heavy electric stuff, but have ya seen that 8 sec electric dragbike? it's nasty and sounds like a pissed off drill or RC car!! haha.. thing is finding the perfect balance on field fluxes, stator and armature windings, wire size and wraps per coil.. contact bouce time, battery effeciency, SCR or IGBT drive losses.. sooooo much factors into a good electric motor system it's damn near not worth it. 
BUT they're still amazingly tunable tho.. you could also save a hair of weight by using dynamic braking instead of actual "real" brakes.. lots of little pros and cons i guess.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted March 14, 2009 12:13 AM
quote:
How about a biodiesel electric hybrid with a place to put my purse?
Wait, no, I mean what about a direct-injection, two-stroke, V5 literbike with traction control, wheelie control, launch control, active suspension and a license plate?
hmmmm...
looks like Tim has 2 dream bikes; a SOCAL thing?
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KZScott
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posted March 14, 2009 01:03 AM
i think a busa clutch could be fitted to a 14 with a little machine work. they use the same clutch pack after all right?
WH, look into building a v6 out of some old ThunderCat snowmobile motors. guys have added extra cylinders on the side, to make 4 and 5 cylinder machines, a v6 is the next step
killacycle and dewalt pretty much use the same batterys, no wonder it sounds like a drill lol
i think 700hp is a much easier and realistic number to shoot for than 1000. its pretty much going to take a full billet motor with a huge hairdryer on it for 1000
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
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posted March 14, 2009 08:33 PM
thats the name of that bike!! killacycle!! haha.
and yeah.. i agree on the HP number.. i was thinkin more along 750 or 800.. but 1000 is possible i feel.. huge boost and lots of money yes.. it would be just a showoff number and dyno queen deal if i were to build something that ridiculous.. or anyone for that matter.
i wish i had more details on the supposed 1khp 14.. i might need to look into it a bit..
supposedly.. i THINK this is the shop... http://www.hyperbikecenters.com/aboutus.html
not sure yet tho.. might hafta go over there and take a looky.. not too far from here..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
Y2KZX12R
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posted March 15, 2009 02:10 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 15 Mar 2009 22:22
quote:
Jim, would you say that the single casting is a stronger unit for unlimited hp applications?
Just curious....
Shane
The factories claim the one piece is lighter and stronger. I'll have to take thier word for it.
But a one piece design limits the number of people willing to bore the engine. Its a lot more time and expense.
Using deck plates during boring and honeing helps, but its far from perfect. Its ideal to have the head bolts long and go down below the bottom of the cylinder. This creates a sandwich setup and doesnt load the cylinder walls at the top at all.
This year at the AETC confrence one of the guest speakers was Lee Carduchi (sp?) and he was head of the ls-7 engine project for GM. He discussed how they wanted to control oil consumption better and produce less blowby. They developed a special boring and honeing proccess to keep cylindricity to 1/5th of what any other production block had at the time. Anyway, they discussed and showed graphs of the difference with and without torque plates and then this new proccess. It was an eye opener.
We use standart BHJ qorque plates but this ls-7 proccess is the ticket.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted March 15, 2009 02:40 PM
We can all dream. Turbos, carbon, TI .......
Direct Injection would be awsome for bikes. And its somthing they can do next year. More power, better fuel mileage.
It would eliminate a bunch of weight and cost too. The lead acid battery, the starter, all the wireing, the gears in the case, etc. Broken cases from starter kick back would be a thing of the past.
The tranny should be in front of the crankshaft anyway. Tucked under the forward leaning cylinders. Then the swingarm can be 5 inches longer but the wheel base 2" shorter.
If I was the sherrif of Hondaville, things would be different...
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