Shane661
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posted March 05, 2009 07:57 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Mar 2009 19:06
Lock Up Question...
My Cycle Logic lock-up clutch for the 14 came today. They are on sale right now, less than $300 including shipping.
Here is what you get:
Lock up assembly, spacer plate, new bolts and the required gaskets. The whole works, basically.
A quick measurement on the scale tells me that with the heavier bolts included, my total weight gain over stock will be about 1 lb.:
Not too bad. If I were to run my quick access cover, that would add another 2.5 lbs. I don't plan on doing that right now. I am not going to be "tuning" this setup. I just want it to hold extra power at high rpm, without super-stiff clutch springs.
I've talked to a couple of people that say I don't need the weight on the arms for this thing to hold. In fact, a record holder at Bonneville has held 500 hp with just the arms (no weights) on his turbo Busa.
Anyone agree or disagree with the weights on the arms for 250 hp or less?
Shane
  
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KZScott
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posted March 05, 2009 11:00 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 5 Mar 2009 19:02
i told you 5 bare arms is overkill 
its sux that its a 5 spring/5 arm design(6 has so many options, 6, 4, 3, 2) no way to run less than 5 arms/springs and have it balanced. pretty much the only drawback to the 14 clutch. you can allways lighten the arms though and get softer-than-stock springs
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Shane661
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posted March 05, 2009 11:02 AM
I'm really looking to just hold the hp...not throw the clutch at this point...
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ZRXDean
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Posts: 2225
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posted March 05, 2009 11:03 AM
The arms themselves provide huge force, you're fine bare. Adding weight will change how soon the clutch locks up, which is how most tune the launch and 330s.
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted March 05, 2009 11:39 AM
Edited By: almost_les on 5 Mar 2009 19:41
OVERKILL!!! (imho)
clutches don't slip at max hp, they slip at max torque. by the time you're at max hp, you're making less torque and the lockup is gonna be adding tons of pressure. were you even slipping in the first place? not to mention you're gonna need a quickshifter or an airshifter for any shifting one the lockup is moving. i think just shimming the springs and keeping p the stack height would be a better idea for your application.
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted March 05, 2009 11:42 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Mar 2009 19:47
I have an airshifter. And I am trying to avoid heavy springs, they are harder for me to modulate on the launch.
I am adding nitrous this year, so some added clamping pressure is in order.
Just an FYI, you can clutchless shift with a lock up. You don't need air or any kill. On the street you can shift a lock up with the clutch, no problem. My girlfriends turbo has one and it is as smooth as stock. It's all in the setup.
Shane
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted March 05, 2009 11:47 AM
i guess it just depends how long you want your gear dogs to last.
either way, with all the stock springs still in, no weight on the arms will be plenty
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Shane661
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posted March 05, 2009 11:49 AM
quote:
i guess it just depends how long you want your gear dogs to last.
Please expand on this...
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted March 05, 2009 11:56 AM
Edited By: almost_les on 5 Mar 2009 19:57
from my experience, and others, stock trannys tend to wanna pop out of gear under hard riding, especially when playing with nos. i've had it happen at the track and the streets. mostly from first to second, but it depends on the bike. after getting a dynojet quickshifter and an air ram for shifting, no more problem. always enough time to fully engage the gears.
i'll still just clutchless shift for lazy riding, but not under full throttle, i let the quickshifter do all the work
undercutting helps too.... can't wait to get my tranny back from R&D
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KZScott
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posted March 05, 2009 12:18 PM
if you foot shift a lock up well, its the same as an air shifter. the reason why lock up instructions say that you need an air shifter is because they are set up so over kill that its hard to pull the lever in for a "normal" (non-clutch-less) shift. you can damage parts from trying to pull the lever in when a lock up is fully locked in (when its setup the way it comes in the box). for a clutchless shift it doesnt matter. back cutting helps to prevent a gear from popping out, but its other purpose is actually to make a gear that engauges part way, go all the way. the gear dogs will last fine if you shift well every time. an air shifter set up correctly shifts well and the exact same every time. my foot and probly everyones doesnt have that kind of consistancy, but a few guys do get very good. it only takes a couple missed shifts to take the corners off the gear dogs, then it just gets worse untill it starts popping out
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted March 05, 2009 12:34 PM
quote:
back cutting helps to prevent a gear from popping out, but its other purpose is actually to make a gear that engauges part way, go all the way. the gear dogs will last fine if you shift well every time. an air shifter set up correctly shifts well and the exact same every time.
i guess i'll have do ditch my setup once i get down to working my shifts with millisecond resolution and consistency. till then....
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ninjaboy311
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posted March 05, 2009 01:32 PM
Shane you will love this lock-up. Won't even know its there.....until you realize you have over 500 passes on your clutches and they are still grabbing like new.....
____________
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8.74 @ 152 on stock motor and MR9 (Muzzy Powered), 205 lbs suited
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Stuart Racing
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posted March 05, 2009 01:42 PM
Congrats. on the lockup perchase, you`ll love it once you get it setup right.....Hell ya never know, you just might want to try throughing the clutch lever out and see what you will gain from it...Verry consistant, and you`ll kill most anyone outta the gate.....
Have fun with it Shane,
P.....
____________
Life in the Fast Lane..........
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Shane661
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posted March 05, 2009 02:05 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Mar 2009 22:05
Thanks for the feedback guys. Pat, did you tune yours..or run it like comes, with weights and all?
Shane
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NOX
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posted March 05, 2009 03:23 PM
Now looking at how the thing is made in up close pics, , I see why you guys can run them like you do......, that is a way less agressive set up than the mtc version for the 14.
Scott...... Shhhhhh.......LOL, but you know what I am lookin at, can you see it........?
____________
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Shane661
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posted March 05, 2009 03:34 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 5 Mar 2009 23:47
quote:
Now looking at how the thing is made in up close pics, , I see why you guys can run them like you do......, that is a way less agressive set up than the mtc version for the 14.
Scott...... Shhhhhh.......LOL, but you know what I am lookin at, can you see it........?
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted March 05, 2009 05:14 PM
It is a fact that you will not notice this lockup whatsoever until about 8000rpm higher. You can hand clutch easily up to that rpm and clutchless shift with no issues. Been riding around on mine for a few weeks and keep forgetting its there. Saturday I get to try it at the strip with the stock springs and 16/44 gears. Will let you know if the combo works like I have hoped for.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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almost_les
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted March 05, 2009 05:36 PM
Edited By: almost_les on 6 Mar 2009 02:15
quote:
Now looking at how the thing is made in up close pics, , I see why you guys can run them like you do......, that is a way less agressive set up than the mtc version for the 14.
Scott...... Shhhhhh.......LOL, but you know what I am lookin at, can you see it........?
oh i see! its the ***** ********* ** ***** ********.
actually im about 90% sure i see it, but due to the nature of nox's buisness, i think i'll not be a dick and go blabbing it out.
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KZScott
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posted March 05, 2009 08:24 PM
im not telling him how to set it up to run it like we do. i have a really rough guess... its a little off out of the box lol. i know how much weight it took to hold the nitrous passes on my bike...a lot less than i thought...a lot less than 5 bare arms....
simply comparing the CL to MTC
my first thoughts on it not being as agressive was the fact the arms are close to the springs, next thought , it doesnt look like the tip can move as far? (long bottom part of the arm)
imo, since you were getting pretty good at the bottom end by hand with stock springs, dont change it unless you want to try to toss the lever and let it do the work. just use it like you intended to keep the clutch from slipping on top end, just dont run any of the weights, you dont need them, and its weight you have to try to turn. you will save clutches this way as the stock springs are easier to controll and no slip up top. great bank for the buck.
i think you should do a test. get consistant with no weight, then add the weights back on and see what happens(i think you will slow down)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted March 05, 2009 10:03 PM
I'm probably just going to remove the weights and clean up the machining slag on the arms and call it a day....
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ninjaboy311
Zone Head
Posts: 940
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posted March 05, 2009 10:56 PM
quote:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Pat, did you tune yours..or run it like comes, with weights and all?
Shane
I run it just as you get it from CL. Didn't touch a thing and it works great.
It's so nice to be able to go to the track and not put a single wrench on the bike....the only wrench my bike has seen since I put the lock up on was to drain the oil, remove the oil filter, and tighten my chain each a few times. And thats since last Summer.
____________
Naarden Speedlinks Sponsored Rider
Schnitz Racing Sponsored Rider
8.74 @ 152 on stock motor and MR9 (Muzzy Powered), 205 lbs suited
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whitehendrix
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fails!
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posted March 05, 2009 11:04 PM
Ooo pretty.
now, is it hard to pull the clutch in when you're at full tilt?
i've heard of ppl snapping levers trying to pull in the clutch at high rpms...
i will probably need to run one when i get the turbo shit done to the other motor.. which, btw, i have a T3 in 50 trim and a .48 hotside on the way !!!!!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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Halvefast
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posted March 06, 2009 06:47 AM
Edited By: Halvefast on 6 Mar 2009 14:48
quote:
quote:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Pat, did you tune yours..or run it like comes, with weights and all?
Shane
I run it just as you get it from CL. Didn't touch a thing and it works great.
Just remember Shane Pat is 12"over, and the bike leaves like this on just motor: 
http://www.gulfimagesphoto.com/ha/20090215/action/0902155621.html
So being your bike is a bit shorter it will come in real fast and wheelie hard,
listen to the others leave all the weight off, you can always add as needed.
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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aliveagain
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posted March 06, 2009 09:37 AM
Doesn't look like the nylon locknut can be threaded on all the way.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted March 06, 2009 10:27 AM
go to tastynuts.com (Pro-Bolt, not the porn site  ) for aluminum replacement bolts if you need lighter bolts, 60% lighter than steel.
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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