flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 13, 2008 01:24 PM
 Edited By: flite leader on 13 Dec 2008 21:30
cant find it now of the boss hogg with the 400 hp or more chevy engine in it
at the drag strip doing a full on launch.......... not a stop lite launch
but full on
was like a sumo wrestler sprinting for the crapper ! ! ! ! !
broke a shock mount tho
in fact its soooooo ugly you would expect more problems
yet i guess they pretty much have gotten it right so as to NOT having them
come back
http://www.videos.es/reproductor/bosshossbigblockvskawasakininjazx12-(fI_GvCl8ei8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_GvCl8ei8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8wLwHs4mzI&feature=related
these 2 arent the ones yet ....................................they exist
spanks the hell out o the ferrari tho
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted December 13, 2008 02:19 PM
if we stop posting maybe this will go away. it seems all pointless but it is winter.....
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 13, 2008 04:37 PM
quote:
if we stop posting maybe this will go away. it seems all pointless but it is winter.....
i agree ...you can't fix stupid ..i meant flite
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted December 14, 2008 02:21 PM
this has gotten soo far off tangent it borders retarded.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted December 15, 2008 06:44 AM
quote:
show me the time slip of your magic 600 that ran 9s by making it up on the big end
explain how a piston can be melted by a lean condition if its running cooler than if it was running rich
my bike ran 161 mph in the 1/4. tell me how thats running bad
lots of guys did it, but none of them were normal size, or on pump gas, or showroom stock. they were supersport motors, with 135 lb riders, and 200 dyno passes........
Same guys would roll 8s on stock wb 12s.
Bergie has videos of it.
www.dontbescaredracing.com
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21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted December 15, 2008 10:37 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
im an old street racer .......from when pinks started
then a endurance road racer
iv worked on hondas ......yamahas
harleys........a few fast zooks
im a rider first.........road racer second & a really good tuner
at the hess station ......lets say i aint been called out in years
getting the most out of a bike is easy
That's cool and all, I was once a very competitive street racer myself before I moved on to racing at sanctioned events.. but I think you missed the question a little.
What do you ride and what have you done in competition, as in 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, 1 mile, bonn, lap times, etc...
no i didnt miss the question
first it aint about me
second i dont brag
3rd if you read the answer correctly ....... let me ask you how many 24 endurance engines have you built
how many international sanctioned events have you participated in
Actually, this is about you. You're the one here arguing with everyone claiming to know it all... I'm just curious as to your accomplishments rather than your knowledge. It's not bragging when someone asks, only when you volunteer... and I'm asking, don't be shy or turn it around on me.
As for myself, I've built my ZX-12R engine with Sal of Ace Performance. Fastest N/A ZX-12R in the country these days, one of 3 people ever to get into the Texas 200mph club on an N/A Kawasaki. Been to 3 different LSR venues and broke 200mph at each one.. N/A. Nothing "great" but one could say I have a little real world sanctioned race experience.
I'm not here trying to attack you, so you can ease up on the defensiveness.... I'm just curious as to what you've done. A lot of guys claim to know everything, some guys actually do... most don't. One thing I've noticed is that the ones who do, usually applied it at the track and have concrete evidence of their skill and knowledge. As they say, "Proof is in the Pudding".
Where's your Pudding?
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 15, 2008 11:25 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
im an old street racer .......from when pinks started
then a endurance road racer
iv worked on hondas ......yamahas
harleys........a few fast zooks
im a rider first.........road racer second & a really good tuner
at the hess station ......lets say i aint been called out in years
getting the most out of a bike is easy
That's cool and all, I was once a very competitive street racer myself before I moved on to racing at sanctioned events.. but I think you missed the question a little.
What do you ride and what have you done in competition, as in 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, 1 mile, bonn, lap times, etc...
no i didnt miss the question
first it aint about me
second i dont brag
3rd if you read the answer correctly ....... let me ask you how many 24 endurance engines have you built
how many international sanctioned events have you participated in
Actually, this is about you. You're the one here arguing with everyone claiming to know it all... I'm just curious as to your accomplishments rather than your knowledge. It's not bragging when someone asks, only when you volunteer... and I'm asking, don't be shy or turn it around on me.
As for myself, I've built my ZX-12R engine with Sal of Ace Performance. Fastest N/A ZX-12R in the country these days, one of 3 people ever to get into the Texas 200mph club on an N/A Kawasaki. Been to 3 different LSR venues and broke 200mph at each one.. N/A. Nothing "great" but one could say I have a little real world sanctioned race experience.
I'm not here trying to attack you, so you can ease up on the defensiveness.... I'm just curious as to what you've done. A lot of guys claim to know everything, some guys actually do... most don't. One thing I've noticed is that the ones who do, usually applied it at the track and have concrete evidence of their skill and knowledge. As they say, "Proof is in the Pudding".
Where's your Pudding?
what i do say is i dont eat puddin
i never said i knew it all + i dont know you
show me where i said i knew it all..................................please show me
which leads to many questions
what have i said that is incorrect......................please tell
please give examples .....................
pleease look at those crapped out valve springs in another thread..........................
i can say i hope he spent another $400 & he installed that set better than those in the pix
slanted & bowed like that means they WONT last another season
they will rub.....cause a hot spot on 1 or both resulting in FAILURE to either or BOTH
dropping that valve into a cylinder.........ruining a head
& claiming afterwards that it all was the NOS " man i wuz sprayin too hard"
yeah right
strange some of the things i post
NO ONE ELSE IS POSTING ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
must mean i know something......must mean i have some experience
must mean i have GOOD results
which GOOD skills + PROPER set up = RELIABILTY
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 15, 2008 01:09 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Dec 2008 21:10
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
strange some of the things i post
NO ONE ELSE IS POSTING ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
must mean i know something......must mean i have some experience
must mean i have GOOD results
which GOOD skills + PROPER set up = RELIABILTY
NO ITS BECAUSE YOUR A FREAKING IDIOT ... And lives in a fantasy world
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 15, 2008 02:05 PM
Edited By: flite leader on 15 Dec 2008 22:23
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
strange some of the things i post
NO ONE ELSE IS POSTING ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
must mean i know something......must mean i have some experience
must mean i have GOOD results
which GOOD skills + PROPER set up = RELIABILTY
NO ITS BECAUSE YOUR A FREAKING IDIOT ... And lives in a fantasy world
a freakin idiot because i see.................
crappy components .............................
assembled in a crappy way................
in crappy photos..................................
no way i could be an idiot
stevie wonder couldnt be an idiot .............only blind
thats what i have to be.........blind
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted December 15, 2008 03:26 PM
Wow, what a freakin mess......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 15, 2008 03:35 PM
wow here we go he is yelling in caps.
flite: i do not want to piss you off that said one on of my posts (i do not remember what one) out of no ware you posted a reply that made me say who the hell is this guy. never herd you before and acts like i am a child in knolage (do not bust on my spelling please). then over the course of time it happens again and again. no one knows who you are or what your credencials are at all. so some are going to have a hard time. then you type to the point that it hurts to follow you. now it is better (thanks sort of).
why don't you try to come across a different way sort of softer and not tooting your horn and pumping your chest with i got knolage too. it seems you do but you (to me anyway) are hard to figure out what. thet being said anyone can read all the posts and remember what they all said and seem to know about this or that.phant just wants to know what you ride, its mods ets how fast it is or you think it is. that is it. we do not need anyone to be that guy everyone dislikes cause they argue everything like seems to be going on now.
kz knows he was a bit rich said it him self leave it go. i know i was a bit lean and now am working twards 12.9ish.
just be cool and relax. and do not be that guy no one likes (do not give me that i do not need any friends either) peace.
phant will u get mad if i say i have a fully programable ecu also?
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 15, 2008 03:37 PM
did i say this post only has a little about rev limiters? the rest is pointless. lets all drink a beer over this and tell dirt biking stories. (i love that) which reminds me i got to get the honda started soon again...
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 15, 2008 03:40 PM
i dont mind the speeling
now i ask you what did i say that is Wrong
please show in specifics
when i see something in a photo.......................valves set up wrong
excessive rich running............fatigued sloppy valve springs
i should not mention it
wont bother me not tooo
yet tell me why i shouldnt
no less i wasnt the only one that mentioned some of these things
so tell me what i said wrong
now i dont remember having a problem with you
knowledge & experience is Gained
everything i know i learned from someone else & i have said i was taught by the best
yet if i comment on what i see...............................& no less im correct
thats wrong ????????
how so
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted December 15, 2008 04:37 PM
FliteLeader- Breath in deep, slowly count backwards from 10 and exhale.
Feels good doesn't it? lol
Listen, I'm not here to bust your balls. You obviously know a good deal about engines. I understand what you're saying and to be honest I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I'm not trying to debate your skill or knowledge..... just curious as to how you've applied it in the real world, that's all.
I'm not going to go through all your posts on this thread and debate you about what you've said. I've learned over the years battling it out with people on the forums, that it's much easier for people to accept advice when it's coming from someone who has proven themselves at the track.
We're all a bunch of gearheads here at dragbikezone.... if you want to start picking at someone else's engine work, you better have some credentials that hold more weight than "I was taught by the best". Hence my curiousity as to your "pudding".
Anyway, nothing but respect.... just letting you know where I'm coming from.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 16, 2008 12:16 PM
nme was pickin on anybody
if you ask the question......... & he did
& you provide the photos & ..............................................................he DID
& then he is crapazzed tooooo sensitive to handle the answer
i spoke directly to wwhat i saw........ had he presented it as .........look at these
what about these ........ i found them in a junk yard
the answer would have been the same
another example ................................... he floated it out there
the head previously skimmed...............he was thinkin about skimming it again
but he would like to keep his squish
answer
2 skims on a head.....................................what squish ???????
each time you skim...............you remove squish
no less overboring...................that is a big bore kit.....new JE pistons
& that area under that flat part of the head...........................remember NO squish
is a prime candidate for Detonation in a engine running Way Tooooooo Rich
as a result of lousy Flame Propagation
thems credentials
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bend your mind.....
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 16, 2008 02:00 PM
milling the head has absolutely nothing to do with squish /quench height on a zx12r. on a snowmobile yes, on a 12, no.
you do not know what you are talking about flite, you just prooved it.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 16, 2008 03:23 PM
Edited By: entropy on 16 Dec 2008 23:27
quote:
2 skims on a head.....................................what squish ???????
each time you skim...............you remove squish
thems credentials
lemme get this straight, 'cause I am always looking for tips from experts:
Skimming the head "you remove squish"???...
like W.C. Fields said: "get away kid, you bother me"
Fishing, I say!
Flite's gotta be fishing!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted December 16, 2008 06:25 PM
I dont think hes fishing Karl, I think he thinks he knows more than we think he thinks he does, I think.
We all know resurfacing the head does not change the squish height, so I wont even bother with that one.
Actually Flight, tightening the squish (decreasing the area between the piston and head) helps to reduce detonation. If two zx12r engines have the same static compression ratio and one has a tighter squish, the one with a tighter squish will be less prone to detonation.
Also, a rich A/F ratio is more resistant to detonation.
"like W.C. Fields said: "get away kid, you bother me"" LOL LOL I can just hear you saying that Karl... LOL
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 16, 2008 07:00 PM
i have to agree. a old big block with 10.5 had to use high test. now we have close to 12 to 1 and 93 is fine i and others used 89 just fine. i bet the 383 in out old roadrunner on 89 would of died.the bikes have what cc volume for our zx12s any one know(y2k should know average. my chambers were quenched on my indy 440 heads from 74ishcc to a small 52cc chamber they angle milled them twards the exhaust. on this i just know what i am told. mopar weges like the chambers quenched. so on a hemi type of head like the bike how do they quench them? just deck them i imagine from theposts? did i get that correct?
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 17, 2008 12:25 PM
always depend on waht you a tryin to accomplish
many fall into the trap that is a see more numbers or bigger numbers on the dyno
thats better
many more have learned..................Thats NOT True
the old mopar wedge many were fond of made a lot of good power as a direct result
it had fewer disadvantages that others
was years b4 the bowtie guys learned about angle milling the head
or decking the block to minmize what i will allude to later
the old hemi was a mountain of a motoit was the hemi head
yes & no
the hemi allowed for huge valves.............the tallet the chamber the bigger the valves
big vlaves...........better flow..... better breathing
better breathin.........................gets NO Better than a CROSS FLOW Head
most cars did not have a direct cross flow like the hemi
big advantage
drawn a 3 inch semi cirle
draw a 4 inch line thru the bottom..................then where they intersect
90 degree vertical lines at the intersect away from the semi circle
these represent your std cylinder walls
them move those lines 1 mm away fro the orig intersects
these represent your overbores
what you see tho is your chamber does not expand & no less what you see on that orig straight line is a flat space starts to develop
you start out with squish & it starts to get flat real quick
thats a great candidate for detonation..................the flame front is weakest
at the outer bounds of the combustion chamber.......... no need to make it worse
skim the head once..........& maybe again or toooooooo much one time
& you see with an overbore your chamber starts to gain disadvantages
one reason that MORE power is evident with an over bore is simply
a direct result that the valves are "UNshrouded"..........it breathes better
probably more so than the fact the bore is bigger [ & we do know that the bore can be tooooo big]
rpm range is a huge factor
all the above is made worse as RPMS go
not near as bad in a big block at 7000rom
simply crappy in a in any engine at 15k RPM
then you start crowding the chamber by increasing the Compression Ratio
or by adding more vapor that contains more fuel & oxygen
gas+ NOS
anyone think that all temps inside the chamber on any axis are the same
anyone think that the vapors are evenly/equally distributed inside the chamber on all axis
anyone think that that flame propagation thruout the combustion chamber
is even
the answer to all questions is NO !
maybe at some speed
probably ideally at its best somewhere around torque peak
which on most engines is thousands of rpms away from HP peak or redline
we all know wea re nor interested in soccer mom.... job commute or going to the mall HP or rpm ranges
we are interested in peak HP & redline & at those speeds even when everything is glorious & right
we are staving off all the disadvantages & destruction
things dont break because we are making power
things dont break because we are at speed
crap happens when some things are not known.........ignored
tolerances start to add or subtract
or you simply have component failure that we all tooooooo often attribute
to the wrong set of circumstances
you only makin 300 hp
you dont need all the lateest & best components & farkles
you need the best 300hp set up !!!!!!!!!
cant go racing on "what if"
or " just in case"
o yeah & by the way
the CAPS are for emphasis.........................not screaming
there may be an italics or something else i could use
hadnt found it yet
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted December 17, 2008 02:00 PM
I read that whole post.
Time I can never reclaim.
Answers elusive.
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 17, 2008 02:25 PM
there is no one way to build any engine
given a budget..........most would pick different components & assemble
& still end up with comparable HP
sometimes avoiding trouble is the gest path
HP is cheap & easy to obtain.......................................until u break
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted December 17, 2008 03:08 PM
Hemis are way over rated.
A modern engine of equal CI will make more power on less fuel and last longer.
Hemis had no quench and as a result needed huge abounts of ignition timing advance due to a lazy flame front.
A 427 LS-1 GM engine will make more power on the same quantity of fuel. They only require 18 deg. of timing advance at wot 6500 rpm.
The bike heads are not Hemis. They are a pentroof and are far more efficient because of the duel quench pads and a flater valve angle.
Hemis have way too much valve angle to be any good n/a. They have NO mizture motion and have huge domes that kill any flame front. They build cylinder pressure very slowly thus requireing a ton of ignition advance and increasing neg hp losses.
A n/a 364CI SB2 will murder a n/a 426 hemi even with its displacement advantage.
Flite, get some newer books to read.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 17, 2008 04:09 PM
quote:
Hemis are way over rated.
A modern engine of equal CI will make more power on less fuel and last longer.
Hemis had no quench and as a result needed huge abounts of ignition timing advance due to a lazy flame front.
A 427 LS-1 GM engine will make more power on the same quantity of fuel. They only require 18 deg. of timing advance at wot 6500 rpm.
The bike heads are not Hemis. They are a pentroof and are far more efficient because of the duel quench pads and a flater valve angle.
Hemis have way too much valve angle to be any good n/a. They have NO mizture motion and have huge domes that kill any flame front. They build cylinder pressure very slowly thus requireing a ton of ignition advance and increasing neg hp losses.
A n/a 364CI SB2 will murder a n/a 426 hemi even with its displacement advantage.
Flite, get some newer books to read.
at 1 time hemis had an advantage chevy & ford took years to catch
no less i was smply commenting on anothers statement
even so top fuel they are still king 8000 some say...... maybe a little less
why no pentroofs there .........................Please TELL ! ! ! ! ! ! !!
i never advocating going back to hemis & i well know what a pentroof chamber is
i have posted that some used 50 degrees ignition advance in years past
found that honda used 55 degrees advance in 4 valve pentroof chambers
not about reading books..................actually about the march of progress
& there are smaller engines still that will kick a 427 azz
i did point out several of the negatives are rpm related
more depends on how you get there & how you handle or avoid the negatives
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 17, 2008 06:56 PM
i know the bike is not a hemi head just did not know the real chamber name. i my self use the wedge and would not use a hemi unless i wanted to go fast. the chevy vs mopar is a age long debate. cfm of a hemi head is way more than a wedge for a mopar selection. if it needs a lot of timing to get it to work i guess so be it and it uses more fuel. i think they still dominate superstock.no one needs to hear what is under the hood of most of the fuel and alcohol cars.
i have no respest for a ray barton powered car.he is local for me and no one here knows how to tune a hemi except for a select few. there cuda is fast. i will stay with my 440 wedge and the low 10s. the fact the car is as fast as my zx11 is cool.
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