KZScott
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posted December 10, 2008 02:54 PM
still avoiding my question?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 10, 2008 03:04 PM
i answered all your questions
i have no reason to avoid anything or anybody
even if we totally disagree
maybe you dont get my answer by staement or example
let me look back to what i may have missed
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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1badzx12r
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posted December 10, 2008 03:08 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 10 Dec 2008 23:10
quote:
whats a bucko
top cylinder filling takes place at torque peak
torque & HP are totally different & they usually take place at 2 different
places throughtout the rev range
an engine runs best WOT simply becuase it is unencumbered
it can nither reach peak torque or peak HP if it is tooo rich
simply aint possible
no less there are many engines that have redlines all the way to 16k for the street
in other scenarios much higher
i talking big bore bikes not 600cc claimed 18k redline ...
but read and learn
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/15762/carburetor_tuning_the_airfuel_equation.aspx
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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KZScott
Needs a life
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Posts: 7235
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posted December 10, 2008 03:08 PM
how does a lean engine (which is supposed to be running cooler) melt a piston when a rich engine (which you say runs hotter) wont melt a piston
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 10, 2008 03:11 PM
A lean fuel mixture can cause an engine to have a surge or miss at idle and part throttle stumble on acceleration, leading to engine overheating and lack of power. A rich fuel mixture can cause an engine to “load up” at idle, foul the spark plugs, and also lack power or run sluggish.
If the A/F mixture that is delivered to the engine is excessively rich for too long the engine could leave leftover fuel from the combustion process, washing the oil off the cylinder walls. Without the oil to act as an anti-wear agent, the pistons and rings will make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder walls. Also, if enough fuel gets past the rings and into the crankcase the oil can become diluted and lose much of its lubricating properties and accelerate engine wear.
Theoretically, the ideal stoichiometric A/F mixture (the chemically ideal mixture of air and fuel that is required to provide a complete burn) for a properly tuned engine running on pure gasoline is 14.7:1; that is, 14.7 lbs. of air to 1 lb. of fuel. However, because of operating losses in the induction system due to intake runner and cylinder wall wetting, plus the fact that fuel may not fully vaporize in the combustion chamber, a 14.7:1 A/F mixture is often too lean for actual operating needs. A more realistic light-load, cruise A/F mixture for a stock carbureted engine running on reformulated unleaded gasoline is in the 14.1:1 range.
The A/F mixture always varies from cylinder to cylinder, therefore we tend to tune the average A/F mixture slightly on the rich side to avoid engine misfire in the leanest cylinder. It is possible to target an A/F mixture leaner than 14.7:1 for maximum fuel economy but this can lead to driveabilty problems if any one cylinder is leaner than the others. The power mixture we target for maximum horsepower is in the 12.2:1 - 13.5:1 A/F range, depending on the engine package and its combustion chamber design.
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 10, 2008 03:13 PM
quote:
quote:
why do pistons melt from running lean? lean does not mean cool!
I hope there is a Wiki on this, or you may not get a reply. 
again i think this is what you are referring too
here goes
all engines run lean top end..................there is a top end even at the drag strip
i think i mentioned that on a drag bike you are not at load
or at top end much
from the time you start till you cross the line you are punching the shift button
that means that engine falls back several thousand rpms........then pulls again
on most drag engines they DONT concern themselves with peak torque.......
most of the time the revs dont drop back onto the torque curve......................
you end up pullinng thru the HP curve again
you would have to be way too lean......14 or 15 to 1 for that to be a concern
you posted you run at 11. or 11.5 a 50 percent difference ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
actually you are making MY POINT of you being tooooooooooooooo RICH
now if you were 12.5 or 13 where youe supposed to be.............NO i would
NOT advocate you running leaner
car ........ motorcycle......roadrace......drag race or planes
i dont know opf anyone that wouuldrace you them being 50percent RICH
or lean for that matter
look at the numbers
you are making my case !!!!!
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 10, 2008 03:19 PM
quote:
quote:
whats a bucko
top cylinder filling takes place at torque peak
torque & HP are totally different & they usually take place at 2 different
places throughtout the rev range
an engine runs best WOT simply becuase it is unencumbered
it can nither reach peak torque or peak HP if it is tooo rich
simply aint possible
no less there are many engines that have redlines all the way to 16k for the street
in other scenarios much higher
i talking big bore bikes not 600cc claimed 18k redline ...
but read and learn
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/15762/carburetor_tuning_the_airfuel_equation.aspx
ok bucko ?????
i can buy lots of bikes that can turn 14....15.... 16 k rpm all day
& some of them will run in the armpit of some of your big bore bikes
HP is HP .......speed is MPH
there are 600's that post topend speeds just a few years ago relegated to big bores
times are a changin.....................dont get run over from behind by progress
the reasonyou have ecus's are
1-epa control at low speed & idle when pollution is greatest
2- to provide & maintain the parametres for hi perfirmance
at those elevated engine & road speeds
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 10, 2008 03:45 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 10 Dec 2008 23:47
quote:
quote:
quote:
ok bucko ?????
i can buy lots of bikes that can turn 14....15.... 16 k rpm all day
& some of them will run in the armpit of some of your big bore bikes
HP is HP .......speed is MPH
there are 600's that post topend speeds just a few years ago relegated to big bores
times are a changin.....................dont get run over from behind by progress
the reasonyou have ecus's are
1-epa control at low speed & idle when pollution is greatest
2- to provide & maintain the parametres for hi perfirmance
at those elevated engine & road speeds
when the last time you seen a 600cc bike win against a 1300cc bike... please feel free to remove your head from your ass bucko...
well go buy a 600cc race ecu and see the improvements over a stock ecu ...not much there so that blows your EPA theory out off the water ...
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 10, 2008 04:18 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
ok bucko ?????
i can buy lots of bikes that can turn 14....15.... 16 k rpm all day
& some of them will run in the armpit of some of your big bore bikes
HP is HP .......speed is MPH
there are 600's that post topend speeds just a few years ago relegated to big bores
times are a changin.....................dont get run over from behind by progress
the reasonyou have ecus's are
1-epa control at low speed & idle when pollution is greatest
2- to provide & maintain the parametres for hi perfirmance
at those elevated engine & road speeds
when the last time you seen a 600cc bike win against a 1300cc bike... please feel free to remove your head from your ass bucko...
well go buy a 600cc race ecu and see the improvements over a stock ecu ...not much there so that blows your EPA theory out off the water ...
and you stated 18k rpm not 14k rpm
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted December 10, 2008 05:53 PM
I just want to point out a few things here and dispell a few myths. I'm shure most of you guys know this allready but i'm sitting in my hotel room here in Orlando and I'm bored.
A rich A/F ratio will always have a lower EGT than a lean one but will make a CAT run hot.
Adding fuel will always lower EGT and cool down the valves chamber and spark plug. With one exception, if the a/f ratio is so lean that the cylinder can not fire and you add fuel and it then starts to fire then the temps will go up. (obviously)
Most of the cooling of the valves is from seat contact. some is from the the latent heat of evaporation of the fuel, (less on sequential fired injectors and more on batch fired injectors) and some is thru the guide.
Torque and hp are not disconnected from eachother. if you produce more torque at ANY rpm the engine also makes more HP at that RPM. Dynos measure torque and then do a calculation to provide a HP number.
Drag engines are very concerned with torque at the launch RPM and the shift recovery RPM. The latter is very important.
An engines peak VE is at its peak torque and on these bikes is well over 100%.
Engines make best torque when they are on the rich side at peak torque. (for several reasons).
Engines make best HP on the lean side at peak HP.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted December 10, 2008 07:21 PM
you're a well of knowledge, sir. i would work for you for free just to learn. 
i'll also concur about lean=bad. after rebuilding turbo motors in cars where the owners would raise boost to 21psi on STOCK fuel managament and injectors, leaning the piss out of it in the process, i'll wholeheartedly agree. yes, running phenomenally rich can wash the rings, but i'd rather have that if i were to pick a poison for a motor.. i'd rather rehone and re-ring than wonder if bits of melted piston made it into the case, any bearings, the head, a turbo (if installed) or what damage is done to the head and sleeves in general.
i've rebuild plenty of engines that have succumbed to improper fueling thanks to the owner not knowing what they're doing with carb jetting or mapping.
oh, and i HAVE seen 600's in the 9's.. boosted. .yeah.. but still.. it IS a 600!! hahaaa
theres NO reason a motor would be FORCED to run lean at WOT if the mapping is correct. this is why we tune, track A/F and compensate thru tweaking. to keep the fuel ration where it should be and to make the motor the epitome of efficiency.
"the reasonyou have ecus's are
1-epa control at low speed & idle when pollution is greatest
2- to provide & maintain the parametres for hi perfirmance
at those elevated engine & road speeds"
as far as an ECU's purpose, well, i didn't know the EPA had anything to do with running 4-8 injectors, changing fuel mapping, ignition timing, and maintaining a rev limit..lol.. you'd be HARD pressed to do all this without an ECU.. a bunch of vac-operated switches, pots and an assload of points and condensers are a little extreme!! thus the ECU. nice, processor controlled goodness in a tiny black box. the EPA only mandates the hydrocarbon emission levels.. and the cat does most of the correction there. that EPA control is there at all speeds and times, and ironically, if performance were to fall out of THEIR idea of the parameters for pollution control, you'll honestly see no performance gains anyway, so, if you're running uber rich, yeah, you might piss off the EPA, but at the same time, you're not doing yourself any favors, either.. therefore, the EPA's governing falls within practical guidlines.
the ONLY instance i can think of where the EPA screwed up a good bike was the 94 ZX7-RR.. the bike barely ran under 4000rpm due to EPA-mandated jetting changes, which made Kawasaki put teeny tiny pilot jets in the carbs.. once switched OFF the low-speed circuit, the bike was a screamer. the whole purpose of that bike was for track duty, but the EPA deemed it too dirty withthe stock jetting for street use.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 10, 2008 07:39 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 11 Dec 2008 03:41
i am with y2k. he said all that needs to be said.(i think anyway) sal got me (and kz scott) to look into ritchening up my afr.now at 13.2:1 and it looks like it is better though it was great air )not that great though. next spring will show.
as far as diesels go revlimiters the mechanical type pull the fuel back till it stays there. set correctly on the linkage inside the housing it is smooth like a lawnmower governer. a hot tractor will hunt a bit but a good pump tech can probally smooth it out. i am sure a newer electric commonrail will be the same as far as just cutting back fuel to hold the max rpm and no more. it is not pulsing anything.that is the great thing about lean running diesels.
mine free rev would go to about 3400 (96 ram) free rev and 2950ish in 5th. we then got it to 3800 but i never had it flat out in 5th. with a 50psi guage pegged i ran out of room fast.
on my A1 it looks like i got my ignition cutting out at 12019 and back on at 12010 the fuel cuts out at 12000 and back on at 11990. nice thing is i can flip flop it. would that be the way to go for nos if i put it on??? reverse the way it cuts out?? i love haveing a "fully programable ecu" but only ridge can really say that. all i can do is mess with the numbers.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 10, 2008 08:07 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 11 Dec 2008 04:11
quote:
oh, and i HAVE seen 600's in the 9's.. boosted. .yeah.. but still.. it IS a 600!! hahaaa
.
well yeah ...but bring any boost 600 to a race with boost zx14's or busa's and lets see what wins...
you can pull your head from your ass on that commit also...
there's a reason why 600's don't run 1300's at the dragstrip ....i know gadson got a semistock 600 to run high 9's ...but the also semi stock zx14 and 08 busa's runs mid to high 8's
i never did understand why guys spends buckets of cash on turboing a 600 to run what a stock 1300 runs
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 11, 2008 01:27 AM
Edited By: entropy on 11 Dec 2008 14:47
Man o' man so much controversy
IT'S WINTER!!!
People sitting in the house, no racing, too fucking cold to even go in the garage. So let's post stuff, eh?
This is a good thread, but real knowledge? Thanks to Jim (Y2K) its making progress.
Chin, where are YOU???!!! Get off yr socal butt and weigh in!
Flite, i sense you have knowledge. Is this from reading the sources AND having practical experience (like Jim), or just listening to the experts (like i do)?
I'm a fukken dilatante(sp?) with this motor stuff and wanna learn, but am having a hard time learning from flite's cryptic posts.
I like KZ Scotts practical posts, yep.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted December 11, 2008 04:23 AM
Thank you Jim for taking some time to post up and remove any misconceptions I had.
Red rocket, I believe the ecu does a soft cut, which only affects half the cylinders. you want it to be a hard cut with nitrous. If Dave O was still around (RIP ) I would get you to talk to him about it, but depending on if you are running a dry or wet setup, it will affect what form of rev limiter you want IMO
I may have a slight tough of cabin fever, (theres is snow on the ground.....) trying to learn from someone who types incomplete sentences with minimal context is just damn frustrating. especially when they dont pay attention to things you posted.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 11, 2008 06:14 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 11 Dec 2008 14:15
quote:
Man o' man so much controversy
IT'S WINTER!!!
People sitting in the house, no racing, too fucking cold to even go in the garage. So let's post stuff, eh?
.
that cold is only gonna last 1 more day here in texas ...back to 70's tomorrow and out for the sunday meet and ride to fayetteville ...if you got a streetbike come get some ....
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 11, 2008 12:12 PM
quote:
A lean fuel mixture can cause an engine to have a surge or miss at idle and part throttle stumble on acceleration, leading to engine overheating and lack of power. A rich fuel mixture can cause an engine to “load up” at idle, foul the spark plugs, and also lack power or run sluggish.
If the A/F mixture that is delivered to the engine is excessively rich for too long the engine could leave leftover fuel from the combustion process, washing the oil off the cylinder walls. Without the oil to act as an anti-wear agent, the pistons and rings will make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder walls. Also, if enough fuel gets past the rings and into the crankcase the oil can become diluted and lose much of its lubricating properties and accelerate engine wear.
Theoretically, the ideal stoichiometric A/F mixture (the chemically ideal mixture of air and fuel that is required to provide a complete burn) for a properly tuned engine running on pure gasoline is 14.7:1; that is, 14.7 lbs. of air to 1 lb. of fuel. However, because of operating losses in the induction system due to intake runner and cylinder wall wetting, plus the fact that fuel may not fully vaporize in the combustion chamber, a 14.7:1 A/F mixture is often too lean for actual operating needs. A more realistic light-load, cruise A/F mixture for a stock carbureted engine running on reformulated unleaded gasoline is in the 14.1:1 range.
The A/F mixture always varies from cylinder to cylinder, therefore we tend to tune the average A/F mixture slightly on the rich side to avoid engine misfire in the leanest cylinder. It is possible to target an A/F mixture leaner than 14.7:1 for maximum fuel economy but this can lead to driveabilty problems if any one cylinder is leaner than the others. The power mixture we target for maximum horsepower is in the 12.2:1 - 13.5:1 A/F range, depending on the engine package and its combustion chamber design.
much of which i can agree with
yet "Load" can be determined under real world conditions & adjusted for
i did comment on tunning at the race track.......& the differential between a "Brake" & inertia dyno
all which can get you close
yet a respondent on another thread posits he is running 11-11.5 decidedly far away from
the best he could run by several points
he could come up several points & NOT approach any danger Zone
his engine would run better across the board
almost all engines ....train....airplane.....diesels regardless & gas engines
run LEANER now than ever
in some cases 2....3.... 4 times leaner
simply a matter of efficiency
yet ALL of them are MORE controllable & put out MORE power
you can have this discussion & Not Make MY POINT !
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 11, 2008 12:17 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
ok bucko ?????
i can buy lots of bikes that can turn 14....15.... 16 k rpm all day
& some of them will run in the armpit of some of your big bore bikes
HP is HP .......speed is MPH
there are 600's that post topend speeds just a few years ago relegated to big bores
times are a changin.....................dont get run over from behind by progress
the reasonyou have ecus's are
1-epa control at low speed & idle when pollution is greatest
2- to provide & maintain the parametres for hi perfirmance
at those elevated engine & road speeds
when the last time you seen a 600cc bike win against a 1300cc bike... please feel free to remove your head from your ass bucko...
well go buy a 600cc race ecu and see the improvements over a stock ecu ...not much there so that blows your EPA theory out off the water ...
last year 600's turned daytona 3 sec a lap slower than mladins bike
they would have turn faster..........EVERYONE KNOWS THEY ARE NOT
NEAR AS MODIFIED as a full on zook that has a lock on winning superbike races in the usa
thats speed if you can count that is comparable...........
no les the best 600's would have qualifie on the 1000 grid
no less i did indicate that 5 years ago kawi had a 600
go into the nines ! !! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ............NO wheelie bar
guys on this site struggle to do better with 12's 14' & buses
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 11, 2008 12:22 PM
when running a 90 hp shot of nitrous on 91 octane, its going to MELT stuff if it was tuned at 13:1 AFR.at my current CR just like a turbo, you need it rich to stay cool enough to survive
I agree its too rich on motor. I would prefer to have things tuned 12.6:1 to 12.8:1 AFR but no leaner racing. for street use 13:1 for economy
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted December 11, 2008 12:39 PM
Edited By: flite leader on 11 Dec 2008 20:50
guy if you believe that ...its your motor
simply aint true..........show me wherer its engraved that at 13.5 you pop your motor
yet you say you run it a 11.5..........then raise it to 12.5 DOH ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
i know what you believe............. i really interested in what you know ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
just looking at all that soot remaining in your engine tells the story
that you have a notch or 2 wiggle room
not a problem for me
yet if i were to spend your money & hand someone an engine that dirty
they would beat me in the head with a stick
i wish you could see vincents engine pix ...................... & yes he sprayed
set up starts with the parts list.....................proper installation
then a proper tune............2 points shy
yet i know what will happen.....
you will run & break blame me & whatever not investigating
not knowing why you broke
now i dont want you to break.....................& ALL, thats Right ALL
the heads up i mentioned are for a better engine....more HP & good et's
not to bust your balls
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 11, 2008 02:10 PM
when running without nitrous I would want 12.6:1 to 12.8:1 AFR
when running nitrous i would want 11.5:1 AFR on my specific setup. which was 90 hp of nitrous, 12.5:1 compression ratio and pump gas 91 octane
yes my motor was ran too rich most of the season when running without nitrous. im well aware of that. i had an air leak around my wide band sensor which made my AFR look lean. I richened it up to 12.6:1 afr on my data logger, but it was wrong because of the air leak. actual AFR was low 11.s:1 AFR I only caught that at the end of the season. thats why you see the deposits. this is a big learning curve for me. im enjoying it and learning from mistakes
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
|
posted December 11, 2008 02:23 PM
im glad you are learning & more importantly enjoying
nitros is Very UNforgiving
run the best setup......oil & gas & you can continue to have fun
air leaks will throw off anything so that making assembly & maintenance very important
essentially you know you will have to do this once a year at the very least
& EACH TIME YOU HAVE A PROBLEM
just tryin to keep the problems to a minimun
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted December 11, 2008 02:44 PM
Flite Leader, out of curiousity... what do you ride and what has it done?
I'm not trying to stir the pot, but you seem to have knowledge on engines and I'm interested to see how you've applied it.
Thanks,
Mike
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
|
posted December 11, 2008 02:55 PM
Edited By: flite leader on 11 Dec 2008 23:01
im an old street racer .......from when pinks started
then a endurance road racer
iv worked on hondas ......yamahas
harleys........a few fast zooks
im a rider first.........road racer second & a really good tuner
at the hess station ......lets say i aint been called out in years
getting the most out of a bike is easy
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
|
1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
|
posted December 11, 2008 03:01 PM
3 sec's a lap slower for 30 laps is a1.5 minutes ...that my freind is a ass kicking in the 1st degree ....
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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