ZX12R_NJ
Novice Class
Stretched ZX12
Posts: 56
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posted November 08, 2008 01:30 PM
Some Dissapointment
So I stopped into RG's Sportbike Zone Thursday afternoon, and was asking some questions about tuning and running the bike on their dyno. They have never heard of the stock ECU tuning. I offered to show them the setup on my laptop, but they said they just throw power commanders on everything and tune em that way. I guess in a point the guy was right when he told me "rickey raced the 12s for years and just used power commanders. He said I should just go that route and they would play with the timing to get some nice numbers out of the bike...any thoughts???
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 08, 2008 02:00 PM
What kind of ECU tunning are you talking about???
Ive heard of replacing ECUs with modified ones for Suzuki's and Race ZX10s, nothing for the 12s, except extending the rev limiter, that you dont need to do!!!
Rickey has alot of maps for the ZX12s, good place to take the 12...
What year, pipe, and what is done to your 12???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted November 08, 2008 02:59 PM
I think he's talking about the Ridgeracer mod.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 08, 2008 03:46 PM
yeah, you can tune a bike even better than with a power commander with RR mods to the ecu
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 08, 2008 03:56 PM
quote:
yeah, you can tune a bike even better than with a power commander with RR mods to the ecu
But the Dyno Jet Tuning Link don't basically do it for you that way, and I'm sure they aren't interested in learning a new way that requires actual work and thinking... If you have ever seen that Link being used you would understand why they like it....
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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ZX12R_NJ
Novice Class
Stretched ZX12
Posts: 56
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posted November 08, 2008 04:31 PM
I have an 03 with full muzzy system, and velocity stacks. That is it for add-ons. It is stretched 6" over. I was just surprised that more people havent caught on to re-mapping the stock computers. But i agree, if anyone can tune a 12, its sportbike zone.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 08, 2008 05:31 PM
Re-mapping the ECU is not really practicle for a shop owner and for 90% of us...
So the PowerCommander and others were made...
I guess i'll be seeing you @ E-Town next season???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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ZX12R_NJ
Novice Class
Stretched ZX12
Posts: 56
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posted November 08, 2008 06:30 PM
I am 20 minutes from Atco, I go there normally Thursday nights.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 08, 2008 08:02 PM
CR you might want to look into this, i knew i had read about it on psychobike awhile back, so i did some digging
(RIP Dave O  )
Posted: June 28 2008 11:49 pm
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hmm.... Here is what Dave Owens from New Limits has to say on the subject
Quote
We are proud to now offer this service to our customers! Due to the dedicated work of guys like Petrik and RidgeRacer in decoding the processor memory we can now reflash YOUR 02-07 hayabusa ECU.
We can raise your rev limits in EVERY gear.
We can defeat the 6th gear speed limiter.
We can change ignition and fuel maps specifically for your engine needs.
We are currently testing the ability to use your flapper solenoid output as a 500mA driver to drive either a shift light or window switch.
We can set your limiter(s) to be either softcut or hardcut based on injector or ignition....depending on YOUR needs.
We can set your rev limiter where YOUR application requires. Previously we could only raise to one fixed limit.
Why the need for different limiter types/settings?
A naturally aspirated engine can utilize an injector soft limiter without risking damage for MOST applications....
A NOS engine which hits a soft injector limiter will cut out two injectors first...LEANING OUT THOSE TWO CYLINDERS!! Usually causing damage as a result....
A turbo engine can also be damaged by an injector softcut....Turbo bikes with SECONDARY CONTROLLERS are also at high risk of damage. This is because under higher boost levels the engine can "drive" thru the stock limiter, and continue on being fueled by the secondary injectors...thus leaning out substantially and causing damage....We can help you set yours up so BOTH sets of injectors cut out at the same RPM!!!
Being able to reflash the software allows us to tailor the engine management to your application!!
We are developing ign/fuel maps currently, and will be offering them for popular applications.
Bottom line....We have been performing this mod previously by changing hardware and raising the limiter to 11150 for $200.
We are now offering this ECU flash to reset your limiter to YOUR application, AND remove the 6th gear speed limiter for $100 with a lifetime warranty as always....
Pricing on the ignition/fuel maps is still being determined....as is the solenoid modifications if testing is acceptable....
Im sure more r&d has been done since then on other bikes, but sections on the New Limits site have been temporarily suspended
there are a few guys with 12s with full systems that have mapped their own bikes by reflashing the ecu, so it is a growing trend...im sure dynojet isnt happy either
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 08, 2008 11:01 PM
They are expensive...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 08, 2008 11:23 PM
so is a new power commander. a reflash for $200 doesnt sound bad to me
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 09, 2008 08:05 AM
gotta be real careful mapping by re-flash; any idiot can map a PC-3.
I'm an idiot.
I'd LOVE to get to know the re-flash routine, but I have other fish to fry these days
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 09, 2008 01:36 PM
the reflash routine is easy when you do it a couple of times. RR made very good instructions.
as for the benifits i know more then a couple of people that had a power commander die or go corupt and need a reload all causing you to be dead in the water where ever you are.
the power commander is also not load sensitive.
the power commander has only one map in it.
the ecu will cost you more money to flash. but in the end it is a better more usefull setup.with two selectable maps by shorting two wires together or not.(i and others found out it takes time to get it to recognize the switch so just shutting down and unplugging ot plugging in the dummy plug i made to groung two wires will not work u must let it sit that way a bit.)
you can have a nos map and gas map. up the rpms , adjust the driveing map to get the muzzy syndrome fixed as good as possible.
i have a dyno shoot out map and a drag map. one runs around 13.5 to 13.7 the other runs sofar 13.2 and i want to lower it a bit.
i got a data logger to set the bike up my self. i do have a lot of time into it. and there is only a 100 flash garentee but some say it goes much more.
i am happy with what i have. it is some what frustrating trying to narrow down a small lean or rich spot. i upped the rpms on my bike to help me from hitting it. i still shift at 12200 but now i do not have to be exact.
anyone that puts a muzzy pipe on and says it is ok is kidding them selves with out tuneing i am betting other smaller dia pipes will throw it off less.
i do not know how any of the shops are doing trying to use this new tool. but i think it is a great way to use what you got. now if i had programing skills on the language it uses i can make it do a lot more. there are about 4 wires or three one could use as inputs or outputs.
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ZX12R_NJ
Novice Class
Stretched ZX12
Posts: 56
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posted November 09, 2008 02:00 PM
my thought is to get upload the first gear restriction re-map onto my ECU, as well as the top speed limiter shut off (already did it myself through the speed sensor). Then do tuning with a power commander. I know bikes, but I am not a tuner, nor do I have the equipment to do so. I would prefer to have a pro tune the bike. Anyone in Jersey that has worked with re-mapping the ECU??? I would love to learn more about it myself. I just dont want to destroy my bike in the learning process.
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