shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 06, 2008 06:03 AM
Making Header Gaskets?
I posted this in the 14 section, but thought maybe some racers over here might have some advice....
None of my local shops have header gaskets for my 14, and I am concerned about being able to get some in time for an upcoming track event. I need to get the exhaust on the bike soon so I can adjust the map. One of the old ones won't seal, and I have even tried flipping it over with no luck.
I was wondering if anyone here knows of a suitable material for making exhaust header gaskets? The stock ones are copper, of course. I was looking for a material that I could use with a gasket cutter. Any ideas?
If anyone happens to have a few gaskets laying around, let me know...
Shane
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 06, 2008 06:47 AM
Shane wipe a little grease on the exhaust gaskets from the old pipe, then they will stick to the head without falling out...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted July 06, 2008 06:57 AM
 Edited By: shane661 on 6 Jul 2008 07:58
They stay in the head fine, but just won't seal on the one cylinder. I checked the pipe and everything looks good. I've had the new header on and off about 5 times, making sure everything was evenly seated and tightened, with no luck.
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted July 06, 2008 08:06 AM
Schnitz racing should have them.
They have fast shipping if you want to pay .
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 06, 2008 08:29 AM
Install the pipe with all the flange nuts by hand then push the collector up against the pan then tightening all the nuts a little then the 2 middle header pipes first or the tube that is giving you trouble and the closest tube to that one...If still leaking then try pushing the collector away from pan...Did you try to install the trouble tube first and tighten a little?
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 06, 2008 09:05 AM
I've tried it several different ways...in fact, I've tried it enough times to have scabs on 5 of my knuckles, lol. I'll call Schnitz tomorrow and see if they have any. If not, I'll give it another go with what I have.
The bike is grounded until I do something, that's for sure.
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KZScott
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posted July 06, 2008 01:34 PM
Permatex® Ultra Copper® Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker
OEM specified. Highest operating temperatures for 4-cylinder, turbocharged or high-performance engines. The most advanced, high temp RTV silicone gasket available. Sensor-safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Superior adhesion. Three times more oil resistant than conventional silicones; eight times more flexible than cut gaskets. Temperature range -75°F to 700°F (-59°C to 371°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration.
Suggested Applications: Exhaust manifolds/ headers, valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings
put some on each side of the old gasket instead of grease. works great, i reused the gaskets in my bike and dads with no leaks.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted July 06, 2008 04:09 PM
No matter what you do... DO NOT use silicone on there Shane.
If they don't have gaskets in stock let me know, I can make you copper or graphite(preferable) inserts that will work excellent.
I'll need I.D. of head, I.D. of pipe and thickness of the "compressed" gasket area(obtained by removing gaskets, inserting clay, installing and removing the header, measuring thickness of thinest area of clay). IE: 1.5"x1.375"x.100"
ANY type of silicone base will diminish the use of, and ruin a WBO2 sensor like your heated Bosch unit. Not to mention that if a sealing area isn't designed for silicone then it shouldn't be used there(just imo), and that the above referenced product isn't rated at a high enough temp for the application anyway.
Todd
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 06, 2008 04:21 PM
I had thought about using a product like the one above, as well. But I was also concerned about the temp range (egt's can easily be 1400 degrees). I had also heard that silicone based products are not good to have around the a/f sensors like we are using with the LM-1's. I don't really know why, but it's what I heard.
Shane
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted July 06, 2008 04:23 PM
$15.20 Schnitz has them.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 06, 2008 04:26 PM
I am going to call them tomorrow to see if they are in stock. Thanks for the lead..
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted July 06, 2008 04:43 PM
Shane, the least(minut) amount of silicone anywhere in the tract(even burnt through the intake tract) can douse an o2 snesor fast. Even used ANYWHERE on a one unit wetsump system like these bikes, it has the ability to take out your sensor. If it gases inside the engine it can get through the crank venting system(then via the TB's, chambers, and exhaust). This goes for anything not marked LOW VOLATILITY, including silicone based spray lubes people like to use on their throttle linkage, cables and plates. I know there's tons of you that are going to say "BS, I use that stuff and have for awhile or on many bikes, etc, etc". But the fact is.. if you have and you're running a WBO2 sensor that hasn't failed yet... then you're lucky - nothing more nothing less. Personally(and this is just one of the reasons), but I won't allow silicone in my shop - period! Well unless it's disguised as well placed breasts that is.
Hey Todd S, nice of you to make the call to Schnitz and glad to hear they are in stock(can't imagine exh gaskets being hard to find, whadda bitch). And good seeing you at the track... congrats on some successful and very consistant runs by the way. You're good people for sure man,
Todd
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted July 06, 2008 06:08 PM
I didnt call Schnitz i just looked at there website it's saved on my favorites.
Shane it was nice to meet you and Rachel at maxton.
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 06, 2008 06:16 PM
damn...... learn something new everyday. and the damn stuff said sensor safe... looks like ill be putting new gaskets in
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted July 06, 2008 06:49 PM
Scott, if it says sensor safe maybe it's something I'm not aware of (I'm guilty of keeping my eyes wide shut to any type of tube silicone matters). It's your sensor, I wouldn't hesitate to call the manufacturer listed on the back and see what they say (ask them if it happens to toast your WB will they replace it for you?). It's really up to how much you trust the temp rating and the sensor compatability(if you're reading O2 on your bike that is?). Just passing on my thoughts, If all is well with your peace of mind then don't fret it until you change them next time.
Todd
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 06, 2008 07:12 PM
Hey Todd, i think ill give them a call, i just installed the LM-1 and besides running the bike in the shop i havent got around to recording a drive yet... i dont need it toasted!
this is the link i got the info from, maybe you can tell by whats on their site? i cant...
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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narider
Expert Class
Posts: 246
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posted July 07, 2008 04:05 AM
I have a feeling that the "sensor safe" statement is more so related to normal OE sensors like IAT, CHT, BMP, CKP, MAP, CMP, OP, WT, and even EGT if the product had a high enough temp rating. But it may be some new mix or something?
I'd be interested in what they say Scott.
Todd
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted July 07, 2008 10:49 AM
quote:
I didnt call Schnitz i just looked at there website it's saved on my favorites.
Shane it was nice to meet you and Rachel at maxton.
Likewise man! Nice to see a few Bikeland folks and some Kawasaki's out there for a change!
Thanks for the lead on the gaskets, I have 8 on the way from them...
Shane
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