zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 09, 2008 07:00 AM
clutch rod issues ( again )
Burnt another rod. We built this clutch not 10 passes ago, and 6 dyno runs
It burnt through again.. 6 brock springs, stack height correct, anti seize on the rod and bearings, everything. We did some dyno tuning last night and on the second pass it burnt through as the clutch was pulled in. I dont know what to do, it will not take the heavy springs, obviously.
looks like we are going to re-invent the wheel on this problem.
Oh it made 227 hp on the juice.
  
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 08:54 AM
Just put a lock up in it.........
It should not have done that though....., you say the stack height was correct, what type of clutch set up were you using.......
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stuart racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
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posted April 09, 2008 09:23 AM
At what speed/mph are you pulling in the clutch lever at.....???I don`t pull my lever in untill I really have to....But you not having a lockup it shouldn`t really matter I guess...With my setup ,with the springs being so light,I could pull the lever in at the end of a 9.4 pass and still not have to use but 2 fingers to pull it in...I use LESS then 6 soft springs with my NOX tuned single stage...It sounds like too much static press. on you stock clutch,IMO.....
P.....
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KZScott
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posted April 09, 2008 11:32 AM
what was the stack height? even if its in the "correct" range, but on the low side it could be too low. the higher to the high end of the spec the better
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 04:52 PM
Why on earth would you need that much clutch pressure....., with only 220 hp.
that thing must be a night mare to pull the lever in......., , BUT. I have used 3 stock, and 3 muzzys springs.........(hint, works like shit) and not had a problem.........., BUT, this was in an application where I was running off a two step, and popping the clutch like the PSB's do.
IF, he is sliding the lever heavily, with those springs......., I do not know what static pressure that is, but it must be near 500 lbs of static pressure.........., and is a lot.........
Is it enough to break the rod..........., Not sure..........IF,
Is there a better way...............
Your damn right there is.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (if the rules allow it.........)
I am lucky, every event I run in, there are no rules......., except no delay boxes....., and even then, I will duke it out with them........
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 09, 2008 04:59 PM
the frst time it happened I pulled the clutch at the finish line, I just chop and pull. roughly at 155 mph. Last night on the dyno the operator did the same thing, ran it to red line chopped and pulled the clutch in, same thing it burned through.
the stack height was set up to the top of the limit.
My clutch is stock plates and fibers, billet basket, and a modified hub with 6 brock springs.
It all started when I put 6 brock springs in it, I never have had this problem with stock springs in 3 years of racing it.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 09, 2008 05:05 PM
NOX not sliding the clutch, this happened on the dyno, when he chopped and pulled the clutch in. But your right thats about 510 lbs of spring pressure, why do I need this much ? I dont know if I do, but with 70 hp shot of spray, i think i do. A lock up is a lot more pressure so whtas the difference, the difference is you have to motor down that lock up before you can even pul in the clutch.
Maybe I need to do this too.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 09, 2008 05:07 PM
Are you running the anti chatter rings?
You say it "burned through" Do you have the bearing installed behind the puller correctly?
I have actually broken one of these........, luckily, the bearings caught in the hub......(count them!!!!!!) I was trying a new set up ........(did not work), and I am REAL aggressive the lever....., as you guys have seen in videos.....
I guess you are running heads up and spraying alot....., but, I dont see why the springs would cause the issue.......
Is the cable adjusted correctly.....(dumb question, but sometimes simple is the place to start.........)
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zrexpilot
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posted April 09, 2008 05:12 PM
 Edited By: zrexpilot on 9 Apr 2008 18:15
Not running the rings, bearing is installed correct, the problem is the pressure is over riding that bearing and not allowing the shaft to free float, it's spinning with the pressure plate and burning throught the puller shaft.
I do like to run the cable on the low side, but I dont see that as being the problem, that shaft is spinning with the pressure plate, which it should not. Its just to much pressure for the little bearing.
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mathews
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted April 09, 2008 05:22 PM
Have you checked the pushrod to make sure it is absolutely straight?
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 09, 2008 05:26 PM
And it only happens at extreme wheel speed right?
If so, quit pulling the lever at high wheel speed........
Or get a lock up......., and you will have to do the same. How many passes is it taking to do this?
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
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posted April 09, 2008 05:27 PM
Mike this is all brand new stuff. Just 10 passes at most.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 05:28 PM
BTW, why did you remove the anti chatter rings? You know they are there for a specific reason. You could be gettting the plates or fibers cocked, and causing the issue.......
I would put them back in........
Without them in, I broke clutch fibers when I got reall aggressive with the lever........
Note: End of free doctor's advice...........
LOL
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zrexpilot
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posted April 09, 2008 05:31 PM
quote:
And it only happens at extreme wheel speed right?
Correct, if you pull it in right at the finish line, it does it. So your saying to motor down first. I heard that was bad, is that true.
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zrexpilot
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posted April 09, 2008 05:32 PM
My mech is going to do a custom pressure plate with a big ass ball bearing there.
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mathews
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posted April 09, 2008 05:35 PM
Thats sounds like a good idea.The whole "Dont pull the clutch in at high rpms"Is not a solution.My dragbikes have lockups with way too much weight and you can still pull the lever in at the finish line.Good luck.See you friday
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 09, 2008 05:37 PM
No need in that......., just motor down.........
If it was bad....., I would be tearing up top ends left and right...........
I have been doing it since 2003..........
Only motor damage I have ever had was due to oiling issues.., but thats another can of worms.........
I would not go to the custom plate thing...., you could cause a bigger issue.........
I would put the anti chatter rings back in though........
But hey, what the hell do I know about clutches........
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 05:42 PM
quote:
Thats sounds like a good idea.The whole "Dont pull the clutch in at high rpms"Is not a solution.My dragbikes have lockups with way too much weight and you can still pull the lever in at the finish line.Good luck.See you friday
BUT, are you running a zx12. As far as I know, other than the zx6, and zx9, the zx12 is the only other set up like this.........
What type of drag bike do you run?
With an inner push rod, like most bikes run, it is a WAY stronger set up........
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 05:46 PM
zxrex pilot, how often do you go through clutches?
matthews, if you "know" you have too much weight on the lock up, why would you not adjust it...., the bike will be quiker, hook up better, and more consistent......, and a TON smoother to ride........?
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
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posted April 09, 2008 05:56 PM
I dont gp through clutches at all, maybe once a year or even longer, they just wear down and I replace when they hit the service limit..
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mathews
Expert Class
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posted April 09, 2008 06:08 PM
None of mine have pushrods,but I did race KZs back in the day.Both of my dragbikes are GS based.They repeat pretty well that way.Just a bracket racer,not trying to set the world on fire.But I have won the e.t. finals 5 times and won the car pro e.t. track championship twice.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 06:10 PM
Look at it this way..........., tons of guys are running your hp levels on a stock clutch hat........
Either with, or without a lock up. With or without a properly set up lock up........
You have some other issue going on........
Have you pulled all the fibers, are any of them cracked? Are the groves in the clutch basket smooth?
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted April 09, 2008 06:11 PM
BTW, nice hp.
I would love to have that.........
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted April 09, 2008 06:42 PM
Its really simple nox, the clutch springs are over powering that needle bearing. Thats it.
The clutches or plates or fibers or chatter spring have absolutely nothing to do with that shaft.
The shaft is not free floating, its spinning with the pressure plate. It needs a better bearing.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted April 09, 2008 07:09 PM
Have you replaced the bearing? Just asking......
I was not thinking on the internals......, that is only for engagement problems...., you are disengaging........
How much statc pressure are you running? Ooops, sorry, you said already, .......
Why not just put in a lock up, and tune it........
less hassle, less cost, longer clutch life, more consistent ets......
Either way, that is your only fix.......
I never tear up clutch parts, and obviously you are......., karl is running more hp than you, and he is not having these issues........
KZ Scott is not,
I am just trying to help you to not beat your head against a wall........
Maybe DM can comment on this, but I see no other fix. Either way, you have to have a better fix that what you are doing, you do that again at 155, and you could be on your ass if that thing pops off and gets popped around into the crank/clutch gear........
Cause with that much static, it aint gonna slip........
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