entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 14, 2008 06:50 AM
best dyno tire EVER: MT-MCR2!!!!
a couple mo ago i mounted a 2 year old MCR2 to use on the dyno.
Sitting my garage for so long had turned it so hard, i felt it would never hook on the track. So why not burn it up on the dyno?
After a couple mo of severe dyno punishment, week after week, both on JC's Dynojet and Andy's Factory Pro, that damn tire refuses to give up. In fact, it shows very little wear at all, and it generally has no problem with slipping on the drum if it is good and warm.
Go figure.
MT says "DON"T RUN THIS TIRE ON A DYNO"...
Go figure.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 14, 2008 08:16 AM
Karl, just for shits and giggles, try out a new one on the dyno to see if a new one is no good or the same as the old one. we know how you like expirements 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 14, 2008 09:31 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 14 Jan 2008 09:32
I HAVE tried a new one on the dyno and it eats them FAST! 
Dyno also loves to munch on broken-in SC2's, one day and it was completely worn out.
BTW,
I then mounted a brandnew SC-2 for followup dyno work which was interrupted by lack of tread on the 1st SC-2. Within 1 hour, it had nickle sized blisters and divots all over it. Destroyed.
Pretty interested that a broken in SC-2 can take the dyno, when a new one can't.
Yes, indeed, i love experiments,
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 14, 2008 10:07 AM
Aged tires like the Dunlop 208 Qualifier do real good!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted January 14, 2008 10:26 AM
Shootout tires will make the best power on the dyno, IMO. Sometimes switching tires will have a huge effect - I installed a bigger intake cam and Ryan cleaned up the head on the ZX10, and it LOST 1 hp on the same dyno. I tried everything, and didn't figure it out until we put the old Dunlop Qualifier back on (from a Dunlop GP Race) and bingo - found 9hp. -Dean
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 14, 2008 11:15 AM
Dean,
yep, i have seen the same thing on a Dynojet doing sweeps, change tires/wheels = big change.
On Factory Pro, tires & wheels have no impact unless pressure is real low, and then minimal impact. Constant speed steps to determine hp seem to be almost impervious to tire/wheel changes.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted January 14, 2008 12:24 PM
Drivetrain inertia only affects acceleration-based dynos the the DJ. FP dynos measure steady-state force and speed and so are not affected by inertial changes.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted January 14, 2008 12:46 PM
quote:
Pretty interested that a broken in SC-2 can take the dyno, when a new one can't.
New tires have not been heat cycled, and the oils and other components that make them pliable haven't cooked off yet. For example, if we know we're going to have tire life issues during a race, we'll scrub a set of tires in during practice the day before the race for maybe two or three laps to get them up to temp, then let them cool off for a day. During the race, the traction isn't quite as high as a new tire, but it's better than the next compound harder and they have better durability.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2008 02:53 AM
Tim,
so does that mean i can take the SC2 that i ran at the last mile, put it on the dyno, scrub off some rubber to give it a flatter (more rubber to the road) profile and NOT worry about it chunking?
As noted above i did have an used SC-2 on the previously and it just wore out toot sweet.
The chunkin episode on the new SC-2 has me gun shy about putting the SC-2 i used at the Mile in Oct on the dyno.
does this make any sense??
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lietoome
Needs a job
Posts: 2033
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posted January 15, 2008 04:34 AM
any chance you fellas have tried a avon ST for your dyno runs? I have very little time on dynos, but the Avon st lasted FOREVER on my bike, but still had moderate grip. I'm not even sure they make the ST anymore...
Just a thought.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted January 15, 2008 09:46 AM
There are two ways to keep heat out of a given tire: Reduce its flexibility and reduce its mass. The flexibility can be reduced by increasing the air pressure or by reducing the resilience of the material by cooking off its flex agents. Since mass is proportional to thermal inertia, reducing mass will allow for better cooling. One good way to reduce a tire's mass is to use it and let the tarmac do the work for you, the old-fashioned way.
You have to be careful to balance your tread stresses (load per unit area) and your contact area. More contact area will reduce your tread stress and increase the friction between the tire and the road, which causes heat. Reducing the contact area will increase your tread stress but reduce your rolling friction. Ideally, you'd want to reduce the tread thickness from edge to edge, not just down the middle, as most of the mass is on the edges of a tire (there are two edges and only one middle).
Granted, we aren't making 300 bhp like you are, but we've never had a problem with a race tire on a dyno. Street tires are harder and seem to hold up to the dyno drum really well, but we don't have the luxury of having a dedicated dyno wheel/tire setup (not enough room in the trailer or the budget). Of course, we always have a pile of take-offs sitting around during a race weekend, so there's never been a need to use a new tire on the dyno. Sounds like a good thing to avoid anyway.
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KZScott
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posted January 15, 2008 10:03 AM
just thought i would throw an idea out there. how would a slick work on a dyno? (like a 7 inch MT) new vs used, the same as a shootout tire? what about its impact on a dj250 readout?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted January 15, 2008 12:22 PM
If anyone needs the sides of thier tires shaved off, I do have a Chain Guard I can lend Ya!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 15, 2008 02:42 PM
lol is it home made?
hey, you dont need the very edge anyway, and its just added rotating weight. Why am i thinking Ali will be interested LOL
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 16, 2008 09:13 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 16 Jan 2008 21:21
It's not just the weight (inertia)...the compound itself has a bit to do with it IMHO...
Very soft compounds can get greasy slippery when they get too hot...
Although I have never done a slick/street tire comparo...slicks DO work very well...
MT is covering theyre hi-nee with the No Dyno Sticker...but I do know one person that had one come appart on his dyno...I'd bet that it got/was too hot though...
THE MT has always been one of my favorite Dyno Tires 
Oh ya...Dean didn't mention how many changes he made "looking for the lost power" before I got him to put my ZX10 wheel and tire (off my ZRX) on his bike for those pulls... 
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted January 17, 2008 11:54 AM
My comments were related to improving the durability of a given tire. Obviously, using a tire with a harder compound would reduce the amount of heat generated in the tire, but it's difficult to change a given tire's compound. Adding air and removing rubber are relatively easy.
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JSCARB2
Expert Class
J&S RACING & PERFORMANCE
Posts: 176
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posted January 29, 2008 01:44 PM
i know that shinkos 003 and the 003 ultre soft rob hp on the dyno! the new mezler dragtec is not to bad. it is a hell of a tire for hooking! way better than the ultra soft but twice the $$$
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