KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 05, 2007 11:33 PM
yr opinions on valve springs?
Ok, Im quite sure I need to upgrade my stock valve springs if I want to do either of the these 2 things:
1. extend the ecu (RR mod to 12 500)
2. spray nitrous AND air shift (from what I read that pop or bang you can get from shifting thru the spray can make the valves float and hit pistons=Kaboom)
What springs should I go with? can i get away with just springs or do I need retainers or other stuff too? (hopefully just springs....)
thx!!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
|
woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
|
posted December 06, 2007 04:03 AM
?
http://zxzone.com/cams.html#anchor414224
woppi
____________
1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted December 06, 2007 06:45 AM
Maybe ss exhaust valves with nos application, kind of a slight debate....................but maybe safer than sorry.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 06, 2007 07:56 AM
i wont be going big with nos, a smallish(35 hp or so 50 max) dry shot
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted December 06, 2007 08:03 AM
Sorry realy didn't answer much of your question. Yes I would think if you wanted to be conservative you would want to replace your springs, but people have run stock ones.
It mainly depends on your builder and their opinion along with the motor application. Such as cams, amount of Nos, progressive system,......
Everyone (Muzzy, Carpenter, Brock, Schnitz, APE,.........) has or can get springs for you. What you may want to look at, or a lot of people go by is seat pressure. You however may want to also look at coil bind and the amount of spring pressure at a prescribed amount of lift.
Ti retainers would be nice, but maybe not needed.
I think Karl has had some special Vavle Springs made that take 2 TFA members or 3 regular people to turn the motor over once installed. Just kidding I do not know what he runs.
PS: The old pinch grip method does not work very well on these springs as it does with others!
Hope that kind of helps.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted December 06, 2007 08:15 AM
Didn't see your last post, stock would probably be fine........................................but the juice is addictive and you may just want to progress to a 60shot...........................then 70......................
..then a 100...............................
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 06, 2007 08:17 AM
i get my Carpenter springs from Schnitz, says 65# seat, but i measured it a bit higher.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 06, 2007 08:23 AM
thx for the input guys
btw ill be running stock cams
Karl, do you use the ti retainers? would it be over kill for me?
oh, Gary, I am my own builder lol, learning as i go  and my "builders opinion" is usually based on you guys :P
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted December 06, 2007 09:26 AM
Ouch, I am an idiot so don't base anything off of me.
I like overkill as well, and have always thought bigger is better,
especially when it realy isn't.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted December 06, 2007 02:25 PM
quote:
Ouch, I am an idiot so don't base anything off of me.
I like overkill as well, and have always thought bigger is better,
especially when it realy isn't.
Remember these words when you are BEHIND him and he is walking away from you!
I use APE Springs with about 50 pound seat pressure! The stock have about 35 to 40. A friend of mine that uses a HUGE Shot of nos 150 to 200 still uses Stock Srpings and Valves and holds several Land SPeed Records and has not blown up a head!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 06, 2007 03:46 PM
VH just the springs? or other parts too?(retainers)
remember i am going to be focusing on drag racing, not so much lsr (if that makes any difference?)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 06, 2007 09:40 PM
I use Ti retainers but some experts that i trust say they are not needed.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted December 07, 2007 07:57 AM
quote:
VH just the springs? or other parts too?(retainers)
remember i am going to be focusing on drag racing, not so much lsr (if that makes any difference?)
ALL Stock! BUT He makes sure that ALL the pressures are EXACTLY the same at the install height! (Read some shimming required so that one valve will not want to float earlier than the others!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 07, 2007 11:05 AM
thx guys! I think ill go with carpenter springs and keep my stock retainers.
now if i need shims, whats the best place to get them?
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted December 07, 2007 02:27 PM
shims w/Carpenter springs???
I really don't think you'll need em, but in case you do, I will make YOU a special deal outa my parts bin.
FREE!!! (including shipping)
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 07, 2007 03:39 PM
Thx Karl!
if i need any at least let me pay the shipping though
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
|
posted December 09, 2007 02:53 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned spring fatigue....
Whatever your seat pressure is when you install the springs.... count on dropping down 5-8 lbs once they have broken-in.
If this is a bike that's going to be rev'd up to 12.5k rpm and will be abused at the drag strip.... throw the stock springs in the garbage.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 09, 2007 03:58 PM
oh its going to get abused
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted December 10, 2007 01:14 PM
Before I went w/the extended ecu I threw in stiffer valve springs. I have tapped the higher rev limiter a few times, even once or twice on spray. No problems with my 35-40 shot.
Not sure what my seat pressure is now, but it was stiffer than stock in March 07. I'm sure its a little softer...how much softer...who knows!
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 10, 2007 02:20 PM
what springs are you running Ali?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
|
posted December 10, 2007 03:17 PM
quote:
oh its going to get abused
Then your best bet is to go with stiffer springs. You may lose a couple rwhp due to the stiffer valvetrain but you will never have to worry about valve float.
I don't have to tell you how important reliability is at the drag strip. Dropping valves mid-season is never kosher when you're on a budget.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted December 10, 2007 05:10 PM
I believe mine were Carpenter.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 10, 2007 05:16 PM
Placed an order thru Schnitz today actually.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
|
posted December 10, 2007 07:31 PM
Not sure if you´ve seen my post on a 1361 I built back in 01 or so. It had around 9k on the build with springs from Lee´s Perf. on the intakes only. I used a Web intake cam. Not sure who made the springs but they came with .100 tall or so spring seats. The new Carpenter springs going back in it reuse the stock spring seats. Anyway, this motor dropped a valve this summer on the intake. Checked the pressure on several springs are they are nearly the same as the Carpenter springs. Really not sure what caused it to drop a valve but I´m guessing hitting the limiter probably had something to do with it. I recently worked on zx11 that would spit exhaust shims every time the limiter was touched while spraying a 100hp shot. An rpm switch solved that problem. Heavier springs went in also.
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted December 10, 2007 10:10 PM
i probly did read it if it was in the drag bike zone, but its not ringing any bells at the moment. i took a week or so after my last shoulder operation to go thru the whole drag bike zone from the start and clicked on every post that looking interesting :P. do you have a link to it? I might have missed it, or it might be in the 12 section?
yes, my bike will be getting an rpm window switch when it gets the spray. it wont be sprayed without one! probly set it to turn on the nitrous when i hit second gear with a micro switch and shut off the nitrous 100rpm or so before the shift
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC