Ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted July 17, 2002 02:57 AM
How to improve 60ft times please!
I realize this subject has probably been covered a million times before guys but I'm really suffering here. I know if I can get my 60ft times down then the sub 10 sec run will be a piece of cake. The problem seems to be my launch. If I dump the clutch out it either wheelies or I loose the back-end due to severe wheel spin. I have tried slipping the clutch but still no real success. I have tried nearly every gearing combo to mention but have yet to find one to suit me.
Below I have listed my bikes mods, best time and my weight.
Bikes Mods
K n' N
Full Ackro
Muzzy clutch
Lowered at the back
Strapped at the front
PC3r (no map yet)
Best time to date
reaction .668
60ft 1.906
1'8 6.898
1'8 mph 113.48
1'4 ET 10.347
1'4 MPH 141.89
I weight 230lb in leathers. Any help would be appreciated as I am on the verge on a nervous breakdown.
Ninja Missile
  
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted July 17, 2002 05:34 AM
I went from 2.0's to 1.8's by launching around 7500, staring at the tach and using the clutch to keep that RPM the same until I could reach WOT....I know I can get more out of it as I REALLY need to hit WOT much quicker than I currently do....but its cake to do it this way.
Im on Stock WB (actually shorter due to the 17/48 gearing) and weigh around 250.
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madmike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted July 17, 2002 07:48 AM
well many thing will probably help, first off your seat position? are you sliding back and trying to hold yourself forward, ie.. pulling on the bars???? dont laugh I used to do it all of the time!! untill I finally realized it, then I cut my seat and it dropped my 60' by a tenth! crazy but it worked, you really have to slip the clutch and it will work for you, and you need a map!!! get Harry's Map, since he has an akro, or entropy probably has a stock map somewhere laying around. then how are you doing your throttle, WFO? throttle it up? roll into it soft? Where are you located? It might help to go racing with some one to give you pointers, that really helps at the track when someone watches you and give's you tips. also video tape!!! and watch your tapes over and over and see what your hands/body/bike are doing!! watch it in slo motion. that helps also. well hope that helps!
Mad Mike
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jessz1
Expert Class
Half the wheels, twice the fun
Posts: 373
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posted July 17, 2002 02:55 PM
I went a 10.05@141 with only a 1.75 60'. I dump the clutch from about 5 or 6 grand and hold on. I got it lowered and strapped as far as I can go. I set the rear shock up as stiff as possible to and that helped alot. I weigh 239 nekid!!!(thats an ugly picture). I have about 50 runs on the bike now. I started at 10.59. 10 runs a week=a tenth everytime I go. At this rate I'll be running with the big dogs in no time!!!!!!!!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted July 17, 2002 04:33 PM
Well probably the most important part of the run is the 330.
Your 60s could improve 2/10ths fairly easy. Dont do any dry hops at the staging lanes. Only do a burnout and then stage. Also, check your tire pressure. You can add a few psi to the front for less rolling resistance. Use as much air as possible in the rear until you lose traction (~25-35psi) Your 330 times really need to be in the low 4s. Like 4.4 or better.
According to your mods, you dont have any gearing. A 17tooth sprocket will save your clutch some, but you will also wheelie easier. Kind of a double edge sword..lol.
You can also try staging shallow. The few inches you get rolling when the last yellow lights could help your 60 fts some.
One last suggestion, is to flip your shifter. Ive see alot of guys get really good launches, but were slow in getting the foot up to shift, then they hit the limiter. By flipping the shift pattern (1up and 5 down) you make it easier to hit the important 1-2 shift so you dont skip a beat! Its wierd at first, but once you get the hang of it you'll wonder why you didnt do it sooner! 
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 18, 2002 05:46 AM
Snap & Slide, one more time
Last year was my 1st time dragging my 00 12, and at 230 suited, I had my work cut out for me. Bike was lowered with Akro, Muzzy clutch kit and basket,; added Holeshot shifter mid year.
I was having trouble getting below 9.9's and my 60's were all over the place until I started doing the following:
- launch hunched over the tank, with my chest actually in contact with the tank, stay down especially for the 1-2 shift.
- get yr r elbow high
- stage at 4-5000 rpm steady, wait for the last yellow and,
- SNAP the clutch all the way out, but don't let go of it yet, you'll need it shortly
- as soon as the bike jumps off the line, squeeze in the clutch just a hair, and give it more throttle, a lot more
- this is the tough part. SLIDE the clutch while staying in the throttle hard. The front end will want to come up, but don't back off the gas just let the clutch slip a bit.
- get out of the clutch and simultaneously roll to WOT as quickly as you can, this is where you get yr 330's, a MUCH more important # than 60' for a stock armed 12.
My bike and I weigh 750+ and using the method above I got from 9.9's to l-o-w 9.6's. My 60's went to lo 1.6's with occaisonal 1.59.
Do give 30min between passes if you are going to slip the clutch as per above. I am on a 1st name basis with Jarrod at Ron Ayers (clutch plates) because I am impatient.
I modded my seat so that I didn't slip towards the back when I snapped it off the line, it really helped. I also added a button shifter, that helped me ALOT, by allowing me to concentrate on keeping the front end kinda close to the ground, not worrying about the 1-2 shift (the only tough one).
I hope any of the above makes some sense to you, but I fully expect someone to say I am all wrong, and they'll be right (for them). How you ride the 1/4 is very personal, what is "right" for one person, can be "wrong" for someone else.
Just keep asking and sooner or later something someone says will click with you as it did for me (I'm still thanking Intra for taking the time to explain snap & slide).
GO FOR IT!!!
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted July 18, 2002 09:18 AM
Thanks everyone for the advice. I will practice some more and let you know how I get on. At the moment I am experimenting with 18\44 gearing. I know this will raise some eyebrows but I find it much more controlable. When I was using 17\46, 17\47, 17\48,16\44 my back wheel was sliding all over the place. With this gearing I have to slide the clutch allot more and use higher rpm but at least there is no rear traction problems or wheelies. My friend Lorcan has used the 18\44 gearing and his best so far is a 9.51. I think my main problem is clutch and throttle control. Basically I have to be allot more aggresive on the throttle. Anyway I'll keep you posted.
Ninja Missile
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted July 19, 2002 09:25 AM
I think you may want to go back to ~17/47 and leave the line a little softer, then pounce. 18/44 is controllable
because you can dump the clutch and ride off. The bike will have a very hard time spinning or standing up with that gearing, but you will also have a hard time getting go 60' and 330' times. Kinda like taking off in second gear.
Hope this helps. \
good luck
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted August 20, 2002 10:36 AM
atleast go 17/46. This is one down in the front from stock. I would never go higher. Your clutch is begging you when you launch with that gearing and high rpm!!! The snap and slide got me from a 10.16 first pass of the night to a 9.98 second pass of the night. And that was my first time trying it. Your mph is there on the 1/4 and 1/8. You need to be in the 6.5 area on the 1/8 though. Its all about the launch and pulling the clutch back in and letting it out again. Dont worry about wheeling. If you weigh that much then you just need to learn control. I weigh 180lb and the zx12 makes 175rwhp on a dj250. I am running 17/46 and getting 1.68 60fts. Dont try so hard. I can leave at 9k if I want, its all about control with the clutch. If you start to wheelie pull the clutch in or hold it where it is. Dont drop it you have to ride it out!!!!! I went from 10.4's to 9.9's in just 3 wks. First two were learning how to launch. The last was the snap and slide. You have what you need to run 9's. Just practice your SMMMOOOTH slip of the clutch out of the hole pull it back in give it some more gas and slip it back out.
I have never ran a 10.0xxx. I jumped all of that with the snap and slide technique. Dont get discouraged. Its there. Also slipping off of the line will prevent your wheelies and your rear tire to spin. Also when you burnout do it to heat the tire not to smoke it. stagger the bike left to right and lean it to get the sides of the tire hot to. Run about 30-35psi and when you launch your tire will widen and you will get more HEATED surface for traction.
Print all of these responses out and you will be doing good. I have gotten everything from these guys here and they are right. Also videoing as suggested is a big deal. You dont realize half of your problems until you watch yourself.
HAVE FUN and good luck.
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95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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HCcandy
Expert Class
Posts: 145
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posted August 20, 2002 11:00 AM
You also can cut the padding out of your bike seat so you set in the bike not on top of the bike...
When you pull in to the burnout box clean your tire off but
try not doing a dry hoop just pull up and stang, your clutch might be getting
to hot and killing the bike on the 60' foot...
Have you tryed putting wight in the frout end of your bike to help
it 60' foot better??? It will kill the mph up top but it will help your 60'...
You just got to learn how to slide the cluch and roll on at the same time
but fast !
The first 60' is the hole race so good luck and
be safe. 
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Lorcan
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted August 20, 2002 02:39 PM
I'd like to point out that we sometimes run high gearing on purpose because the tracks we run at are so poor. Some are old WW2 airfields made from concrete with grass growing in between, and sometimes broken asphalt on the top. They can be bumpy enough to tankslap a ZX12 at 140+. There is no way we can run "Gadson gearing" at some of these tracks. When we do get to a good track, sometimes it's prepped, sometimes it isn't. It all makes chassis tuning and honing your technique rather difficult. One week I am sat back launching at 5000 on 18/44....next week I am hunched over the front leaving at 9500 on 17/49!
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Lorcan
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted August 20, 2002 02:42 PM
Oh yeah, my dad who is 65, went 9.95 last weekend! His first 9 since 1976!
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ZXALAN
Expert Class
Posts: 156
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posted August 20, 2002 06:22 PM
Your problem is as most of ours are. You are not turning the throttle on quick enough. Plain and simple, pin the throttle quick, use the clutch to keep the front close to the ground. I get my right arm cranked way over the throttle almost awkward looking, as the green light hits, I twist my whole arm like a wing, it almost forces the bike to go WOT instantly. I basically drop the clutch as I am twisting my arm but I don't let go all the way, I hold it just enough to control the front end. I am usually out of the clutch before the 60' and WOT within 20' of the gate. This is on a stock arm on a busa with a BT010 tire. IF I was a little more confident I think I could hit WOT right out of the gate, I have done it before but let the clutch go too soon the the bike bogged. Its all in the practice but you GOT to turn the throttle on quick and do not slide the clutch out more then you have to. BTW I 60' 1.56-1.62.s. When I am in a good groove I average 1.61s.
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted August 24, 2002 12:18 PM
 Edited By: INTRA on 24 Aug 2002 13:32
Damn,18/44??,I wonder how long he has to slip that clutch??He must be a light wieght,first off,slam the bike,2nd,if your heavy??Gear it 17/48 like you did,then use a good tire,shit,even a street tire will go 1.5's on the right surface,but I will be the first to admit,if you don't get enough seat time,and you continously change your set-up without refining your launch on the prevous one,you'll never get in the "groove",but sometimes you can't explain certain things,like last weekend,I took a friends gixxer 1000 to the strip,100 degrees,on a street tire,bike was slammed,I would let the clutch go at the lowest 9500 rpm from the line,even a few times much higher,the bike beat everything it ran against that day(1000's,busas,some stretched old school bikes,and even a pretty quick silver 12)the point is,I had more seat time on that bike then even my current zx-12(busted basket),and after we slmmed it,we left it alone,just messed with the tire pressure and actually let the front end strap loose most of the time,it's bike hight,gearing,traction,clutch modulation,body position,and your ability to adapt to weather/track conditions(adjusting the bike accordingly),but most important,your love of the sport,don't you just get wired right before you get to the strip??I do. 
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 24, 2002 12:24 PM
hey Joey, where have you been?????
Got a bike between yr legs these days? Coming down to the shootout on the 7th????
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted August 24, 2002 12:40 PM
Edited By: INTRA on 24 Aug 2002 13:43
Hey Carl!,Ive got my bike just about finnished(long like yours),just been sporting a 1000 at the strip a few times,but ready to get out of the 9's by the last shoot out,you know,I got 173hp to the wheel out of the new 12 I have with just the filter mod,ign adv,and muzzy TI pipe,bear stacks comming shortly and(NEW MOD) 5hp w/a(vaccum pump),holy shit!,it works!When we finnish(by next weekend),let's see if my bike will be 180hp??No internals or nuetec,in 100 degree heat-stay tuned,shootout??my girlfriends comming in from new orleans the weekend around the 5th,so maybe not?Hows the 1361 treating ya?
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted August 24, 2002 12:47 PM
Of course,I can't keep my bike off drugs completely!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 24, 2002 05:05 PM
Joey,
great to hear you are back at it, but don't let that GF keep from the track, eh? Getting 180hp outa a stocker!!! Holy Schitt!!!
I now have Lee's cams and a slight head clean up. Gained a few hp; got 204 SAE on nutec at Sabin a couple weeks ago. My bike is running in the teens, 153-155mph. (with stinky juice). With a little luck, I figure its good for 8.9999999 when we get hp weather back in the winter (even w/my fat ass).
I got a lesson from Kerry last week when he noticed I wasn't pre-loading the clutch when staged. I was spinning off the line 50% of the time. Once I learn to do this better, i'm hoping my 60's will be consistently 1.50's. Seems like there is always something new to learn, eh?
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 24, 2002 07:05 PM
AHHHHHHH...The SNAP and SLIDE!!! I'm working on it Entropy!!! I just need to not over rev it, which I have been doing...It's not as easy as it sounds here!!!
CrotchRocket
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 25, 2002 12:44 AM
CR,
Snap & Slide isn't easy but man o' man, it works!!! BTW, it was INTRA who 1st explained it to me in a way which made sense to my old, thick head. I couldn't believe how much I progressed after practicing it for a while.
How are you doing, getteing quicker?? Burning up any clutches? Or are you resisting the urge to hot lap???
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 25, 2002 12:46 AM
CR,
Snap & Slide isn't easy but man o' man, it works!!! BTW, it was INTRA who 1st explained it to me in a way which made sense to my old, thick head. I couldn't believe how much I progressed after practicing it for a while.
How are you doing, getteing quicker?? Burning up any clutches? Or are you resisting the urge to hot lap???
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted August 25, 2002 03:04 PM
Entropy...The progress is slow, but I am feeling it!!!...I just cant get the balls up to snap it too much, afraid of dumping the 12!!!...You know , dont want the bike taking me for a ride!!!
INTRA, thanks for sharing the Snap & Slide with us!!!
CrotchRocket
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ZX12Girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted August 25, 2002 06:28 PM
"Snap & Slide".....Hmmmmm
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted August 26, 2002 07:55 PM
Sounds like a new kinda toy or something,my best 60' yet on a stock wheelbase bike was on my buddies(slammed) 00 gixxer 750,w/some gearing(1.53),but to tell you guys the truth,on that bike,I think I more or less shot the bike out at 10500 to 11000 rpms,then would fimally release the clutch and be at the same rpm I left the line with,it went 6.20's also,and I wiegh 180.(that was the best sounding motor I have ever heard when it was screaming).
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HCcandy
Expert Class
Posts: 145
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posted August 27, 2002 11:34 AM
"Snap & Slide".....Like she said.........
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