KZScott
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posted November 30, 2007 07:31 PM
smog ports. keep em? plug em?
Ok, Im having a bit of trouble deciding what to do with my port clean up job. heres whats going through my head
I was running the crank case vent mod which removes the smog junk and makes the crank case vent into the exhaust ports. this creats a slight vaccum on the crankcase, guys have claimed up to 5 hp with this mod, but im guessing its closer to 2-3. now if i plug the smog ports in the exhaust ports and make them look like regular exhaust ports, the head will flow better, and should make more power. but then i loose what i gained from the crankcase vent mod. would i break even or would i gain more from plugging the ports then the CCVM? also now where do i vent the CC? could i run it to the pipe? what section? close to the collector or close to the can? my uncles drag vette (548ci) has the valve covers vented to the collectors(which creats a slight vaccum too), but theres no exhaust stystem, just open headers, so im not sure if it would work on the bike...
hmmm plugged smog ports, but still getting a slight vaccum would be the best of both worlds. is it possible???
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted December 01, 2007 02:33 PM
I ran the vent hose to the ports on the valve cover for a while and notice no difference on the dyno and not difference and the track.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 01, 2007 06:11 PM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 1 Dec 2007 18:14
When a drag V8 engine has the crank case vented to the header collectors with a check valve as you stated, the low pressure pulses in the collector help lower the crank case pressure by using the strong collector pulses to help evacuate the crank case.
This only works at certain rpms and you must be connected to the collector. But more importantly it works because it can draw a lot of volume.
The so called "crankcase mod" where you try and draw the crank case blow by air thru the tiny head ports could never draw or flow enough volume to possibly lower the crankcase pressure.
We have used large vacuum pumps on racing V8's for years and you need a lot of volume to even think about reducing the crankcase pressure, and you have to pull the pressure down a lot. And even then it's only worth a few hp on a 600 hp engine.
On the other hand by blocking off the ports completely, you can take better advantage of the negative pressure wave in the primary pipe by using it to scavenge the cylinder better and lower the cylinder pressure during valve overlap. This depressurizes the intake port quicker and gets the intake flow moving faster. This will yield some real HP.
Now if you wanted to put an electric vacuum pump made for this on the crank case vent and seal off the crankcase you may actually see some HP from it. But the added weight of the pump and the added load on the alternator to make the electricity to run the pump would probably negate any gains.
You could also put a check valve and tube into the collector and use that to evacuate the crankcase. But the tube going into the collector has to be sized, angled, shaped, properly and have the proper insertion depth into the collector to work. And even then it only works at certain rpms.
But I like the way youre thinking Scott !!!
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted December 01, 2007 06:48 PM
Thx Jim, as allways, Im looking for a way to make this better!  I have a strong desire to know every little bit of info about a motor as possible:P (gotta know every trick in the book to build hp with limited funds lol)
I didnt realise there was a check valve on the hose to the collector.(makes sense, you dont want an exhaust pulse pressurizing the crank case!) I will have to take a closer look at my uncles headers. I do know its at about a 45 degree angle, and i think it sticks out into the collector maybe 3/4 of an inch, but i havent seen it in a long time....
now when you say it has to be connected to the collector, you mean just downstream of it correct? or would anywhere inbetween the collector and the muffler be ok as long as its not connected to just one of the head pipes before it reaches the collector?
about sizing, would using something the same diameter as the original hose coming from the crank case be pretty much spot on? what kind of shape does the tube have to be? i think the ones in my uncles headers are cut at a 45 degree angle (the cut being parallel to the flow of the exhaust/the side of the exhaust pipe)
as to plugging the smog ports, after a good cleaning, would something like JB weld work or is there a better "goo" out there that i can put in and easily shape?
thx!!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 02, 2007 05:59 AM
I dont know the details on what works best on the tube insertion etc. We buy headers that have been made to use the system. Try to mimic the dimensions and scale them down.
The easiest way to block off the smog is with flat plates or block off the stock plates by jbweld or welding them up. Its easier than messing with the head.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted December 02, 2007 06:25 AM
KZscott I have Muzzy block off plates 25.00 tyd.
plus that stock reed valve vacuum stuff doesn't work at high rpms trust me
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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KZScott
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posted December 02, 2007 09:51 AM
quote:
I dont know the details on what works best on the tube insertion etc. We buy headers that have been made to use the system. Try to mimic the dimensions and scale them down.
The easiest way to block off the smog is with flat plates or block off the stock plates by jbweld or welding them up. Its easier than messing with the head.
wouldnt the head flow better without that big gaping hole in the port?(even if there isnt any air flow coming out of the hole) a little more work with the dremmel wouldnt really be that big of an issue. i want it to work as good as i can get it to work
If filling this in and then smoothing it out would help, im going to do it 
as you can see, it wouldnt be that much more work compared to what i have started anyway
JC I may get those plates from ya regardless of what i do to the smog ports, they would just look better then stockers welded up or JB welded :P
you did ship that first gear didnt you? Im thinking it should be here any day now
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted December 02, 2007 09:56 AM
yes I shipped it.
You haven't recieved it yet?
next time I will not wait till paypal clears that was two weeks this time
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted December 02, 2007 10:16 AM
Scott, dont bother with the holes. It will have zero effect on flow or hp.
But, do you see that sharp ridge on the short turn of the exhasut? Theres some flow there by smoothing it. (bottom picture, under the valve seat, about 3/8" down, the light colored area)
But be very carefull, if you go too far you will hurt flow. You want to just SLIGHTLY smooth that sharp edge. And i mean just slightly. The smoothed area should be about 1/6" wide and 3/8" long along that ridge. It will look like you almost did nothing.
This is a case where a little is good and too much is worse than leaving it alone and not doing it at all. Do the same on the intake. But just a little.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted December 02, 2007 03:06 PM
JC, still not here, must have been slowed down in customs or something, hopefully it will show up this week. I "fixed" the problem with paypal taking so fukken long to clear. When i dont keep a balance in my paypal account, it takes funds from the bank account its linked to, and sends an echeck, which takes time to clear. now im keeping some cash in the paypal account too, and i can instantly transfer that money, no waiting for it to clear.
25 paypal'd to you, it should be in your account now
Jim, Im not exactly sure i know what you are talking about. Ill post a few more pics that will hopefully have a better angle. I have read that doing a lot to the floor of the port is bad, so i tried to stay awat from it as much as possible...
my most recent pics
do i need an angle looking in from the combustion chamber?
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 02, 2007 04:08 PM
In the bottom picture. Look at the valve seats. look about 3/8" below the valve seat. On the short turn radius look at the sharp ridge. Round that slightly.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted December 02, 2007 04:55 PM
are you talking about any of the circled areas?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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posted December 03, 2007 09:27 AM
JC, the gear showed up today  thx
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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aliveagain
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posted December 04, 2007 04:24 PM
I took a 3/8 pipe tap to my stock covers and then threaded in a plug.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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KZScott
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posted December 04, 2007 08:07 PM
the Muzzy plates are purty tho LOL
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted December 08, 2007 01:34 AM
Jim? still not sure of where you were talking about...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted December 08, 2007 07:15 PM
Sorry, I've been down here in Orlando FL. at the PRI trade show. Man theres a lot of very cool new stuff.
Anyway, no, thats now where I,m talking about. look under the valve seat about 3/8"... thats where i'm talking about.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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