entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 24, 2007 08:09 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 24 Nov 2007 20:13
she's making noise again: a few pix along the way
JE deep pocket, max dome, 15.74:1
bathroom scale valve spring tester
the easy way to get pistons/rings into cylinders
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
  
|
osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
|
posted November 24, 2007 08:27 PM
Good stuff Karl. Glad she is running again. I like the spark plug relief in the pistons. 
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 24, 2007 10:36 PM
quote:
Good stuff Karl. Glad she is running again. I like the spark plug relief in the pistons.
Noonan's engineers gave me that 
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted November 25, 2007 04:27 AM
cool! I have a few questions 
1. how exactly does the spring tester work? use the drill press to compress the v spring till its bottomed out and then read scale?
2. I notoced you have blue silicone instead of the black factory stuff. what kind is it, and do you use it to seal the case halves too?
3. Just wondering if you thought about the really thin piece of piston that sticking up around the valve pockets on the edge of the piston. that must get really hot! (possible cause for detonation?) i was reading about stuff like that the other day:
http://www.zx-12r.org/Motorcycle_info/Information%20Pages/1270%20Build%20Up%20-%20L_A_%20Busa's.htm
http://www.zx-12r.org/Motorcycle_info/Information%20Pages/Silver%20bullet!.htm
(you actually posted in the second one, but it was 6 years ago lol)
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 25, 2007 05:10 AM
Edited By: entropy on 25 Nov 2007 05:29
KZ
1. spring tester:
i push down on the valve with the drill press until the valve just starts moving. That "weight" on the dig bathroom scale is what i take for seat pressure. With a little practice the results can be very reproducible.
2. silicone around the oil breather baffle
- I don't think it makes any difference what silicone in used there, i just had some blue stuff.
- for putting cases together i've tried several products but settled on Yamabond4. Main thing is to get the mating surfaces REALLY clean & dry of any solvent used to clean em and put on the thinnest layer possible.
3. All edges on that set of pistons have been laboriously rounded. That thin part around the intake.... hmmmm....
D Meyer in 2001:
"The JE pistons "in stock form" are perfectly acceptable. Mike's concern about the thin section on the circumference at the inlet valve pocket is a valid concern and he or anyone is perfectly free to modify this area if they wish, but the piston can be used as is. ...
What do I do?
Well, I sit on a stool in my garage and with each piston cradled in my lap, I spend about 15 minutes on each with a sharp little pocket knife de-burring each edge, ensuring that every edge has a chamfer on it, that there are no left over little chinguses (tech term) from machining, that it hasn't every been dropped in shipping, bending a skirt, that the oil holes are clear (chinguses again). Then I go back over each one with my air grinder and a scotchbrite burr and polish all the aforementioned edges as well as the valve pocket edges. ...
Now, could you just take the piston from the box and run it? Of course. Probably 999 out of 1000 times nobody would know the difference and there would be not detectable power or running deficiency. Could you hurt this area?, sure kick the timing up too far or run some bad gas and rattle the thing hard and when the piston fails (any piston) this is where the failure will start. "
Doug
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
|
posted November 25, 2007 06:31 AM
you know Karl I do have a real spring tester I could have sent you to use.
ps did you get the injectors?
____________
Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 25, 2007 06:59 AM
JC,
yep i did get the injectors and even remembered to put the right map in before firing it up
Thanks a million for sending them so quickly!
What do you mean "a real spring tester"??? That bathroom scale is a genuine Tanita!!!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted November 25, 2007 10:55 AM
Great Karl. Looking forward to seeing how that head performs for you.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
woppi
Pro
Posts: 1362
|
posted November 25, 2007 11:33 AM
!!
+1
!!
woppi
____________
1st TFA Member / Austria !
" if it has wheels or titts - sometimes you will get troubles "
2000 Limited ZX12R NOS
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 25, 2007 02:46 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 25 Nov 2007 14:49
I really understand Karl! I use the Rubber Abrasive Wheel that Dremmel has for all of my edges I also have learned to be careful because they cut slow does not mean that they do not CUT! (Remove metal!
I forgot to add that Gayle Banks said that the 2 limits on HP were the Strength of the engine and the Octane of the Fuel! So he is now into Diesels! No Problem with the "Octane"! (Not to mention that they are ver strong! At almost 16 to 1, you are almost there! I think that 18 to 1 would make a good Diesel!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
|
posted November 25, 2007 10:06 PM
Where are the pics of the head repairs? How can I have closure without seeing them?!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 26, 2007 12:45 AM
Edited By: entropy on 26 Nov 2007 00:50
here ya go Tim:
before:
after and BIG thanks to Y2K / Carlquest Performance!!!!!!:
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
|
posted November 26, 2007 08:16 AM
Ahhhhhhh!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:59 AM
quote:
Ahhhhhhh!
i didn't think it was repairable at all and am real glad how it turned out!
BTW: to avoid heart attacks in the garage at 4am, it is HIGHLY recommended to open the butterflies when doing cold compression tests on a new motor...
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:08 AM
quote:
BTW: to avoid heart attacks in the garage at 4am, it is HIGHLY recommended to open the butterflies when doing cold compression tests on a new motor...
tooo funny Karl lol
whens it going on the dyno?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:20 AM
Very Nice!!!! just curious, did the head have to be welded on or just cleaned up with the bigger valves and seats?
Just curious if you will be using the same cams as the other motor, with regard to duration and lift?
Also curious on a big valve with an engine as large as yours do you open the intake a little later to keep the velocity up for some stacking at the end, or is it not much of a concern.
If this stuff is top secret like some of them east coast fellas then no worries on answering. I just find this stuff interesting and wish there was more of this on the boards.
Thanks
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:49 AM
KZ, the plan is to break it in on a FactoryPro on Fri, then do some additional tests on a Dynojet on Sat.
Gary
the head had to be welded, seat replaced on that cyl, all seats recut, all valves & springs replaced.
I'll be using different cams, hi lift on intake, more duration on exh.
What CL's are best? we'll test various settings. The reason for the deep pockets is all about flexibility in testing CL's
One of "those East Coast fellas" is guiding this experiment via simulation results.
Will it make any more hp???
We'll see
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted November 26, 2007 12:47 PM
Sorry, had to get a little cheeky with them East Coasters!!!
It will be very interesting to see how the simulation measures up to real world.
If it's close and has a low percentage of error, it just might make your experimentation
a little quicker and easier.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted November 26, 2007 01:00 PM
easy on the east coasters :P
(located in NB Canada)
cant wait to see what the newest monster motor does
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted November 26, 2007 07:09 PM
Not knowing any better,will those pin holes and the notches around the spark plug hole be a problem with hot spots?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
|
posted November 26, 2007 08:58 PM
Those will fill in with carbon in a couple heat cycles and will not pose a problem.
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
|
posted November 27, 2007 01:32 PM
Just curious, was your head already ported, or did ya have the CNC fellas port it,
or re-port it?
Also curious what a clean up on one cylinder like that runs?
It would be interesting to see what board members thought those cams will degree in at for the best performance. Anybody game?????
I'll give my idiots guess and go out on a limb and say 109/107.
Just curious, with those deeper pockets how low do you think you will be able to go?
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted November 27, 2007 06:06 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 27 Nov 2007 18:15
quote:
Not knowing any better,will those pin holes and the notches around the spark plug hole be a problem with hot spots?
Like tcchin says... they fill with carbon, no problem Pete. Thanks for the Valve guides Pete. You know where they are if you ever need them.
We had to do quite a bit of welding actually. It was beat up pretty good.
We didnt CNC port it but Maybe Karl can elaborate on the porting.
I did use my newest design seat cutter on it thou. It's an 89% custom cutter that I just designed and started using on our CNC ported Busa stage one HV head. That head just made 220.x hp on the dyno on a mild 1397 with this seat shape. So now well see how it works on Karl's setup.
This is the profile without the numbers... sorry I have to keep a few things a secret 
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
|
posted November 27, 2007 06:44 PM
So your cutter cuts all the angles and radiuses at once? Do you use a Serdi machine? I'm kicking around the idea of buying a seat machine myself.
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted November 28, 2007 01:16 AM
quote:
Just curious, with those deeper pockets how low do you think you will be able to go?
Gary: I could prob go down to 103/103, although i'm told that such low #'s would be VERY unlikely to help me at 10000rpm+ where I am looking for improvement.
I have the deep pockets to allow the flexibility to go low in case "conventional wisdom" doesn't apply to my "Senior Science Fair Project"
If the motor survives Andy's dyno on Fri and (hopefully) JC's on Sat I will start cam CL tests mid Dec.
This weekend's results will give direction for the mid dec tests.
I don't know shit about overlap / lift / duration / static / dynamic / velocity / swirl / etc / etc but luckily I know some smart folks who are VERY generous with their time & advice.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC