shiphteey
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posted October 11, 2007 08:05 AM
60 shot...clutch?
For those of you that have sprayed a 60 shot, do you think a muzzy clutch kit with 3 stiffer springs will hold a 60 shot for the mile? Why or why not?
A.
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KZScott
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posted October 11, 2007 08:15 AM
I have no idea, but my 01 came with 6 of the heavy springs in it, and its not that hard to pull in. unless you really like the way it feels, you could probly just put 3 more in yours and it would be fine?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted October 11, 2007 09:13 AM
On my stock motor with a 70 shot I used the Muzzy Pack and 3 of Schnitz's race springs with out any problems. I did have my clutch slip with the stock set up and juice, but I am also heavier and have more wind resistance. I think I had around 170-171HP on the motor and 236-238HP with the juice. This time I ran the same set up, but it did not hold. I went to 6 springs (thank you Entropy) held on with motor, but not on the juice. Mad Mike runs different springs that are stiffer than Schnitz. I felt his clutch compared to mine, very nice. He also sells nice pans and valves.
If your on a tight tight budget you may just want to keep the same steels/fibers and shim your stock springs up and run it on the dyno with a little load to see if you get any slip.
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VincentHill
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posted October 11, 2007 11:35 AM
quote:
On my stock motor with a 70 shot I used the Muzzy Pack and 3 of Schnitz's race springs with out any problems. I did have my clutch slip with the stock set up and juice, but I am also heavier and have more wind resistance. I think I had around 170-171HP on the motor and 236-238HP with the juice. This time I ran the same set up, but it did not hold. I went to 6 springs (thank you Entropy) held on with motor, but not on the juice. Mad Mike runs different springs that are stiffer than Schnitz. I felt his clutch compared to mine, very nice. He also sells nice pans and valves.
If your on a tight tight budget you may just want to keep the same steels/fibers and shim your stock springs up and run it on the dyno with a little load to see if you get any slip.
Does "ANY" of this great advive sound like someone that has NO Idea of what he is talking about  The Schnitz are like Fork Springs and the ZX6r (Muzzy are nice) if all 6 ZX6R sporing are not enough, then look at Brock because his are between the Schnitz and Muzzy! Maybe 3 Muzz and 3 Brock! I never had clutch slip with 3 Muzz and 3 Schnitz. I got the lock up because at 150 to 200 shot I wanted to have a Hand left after a weekend!
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madmike
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posted October 11, 2007 11:46 AM
I use the 6 Brock spring's and 0 issues... a little hard for a good dragrace launch for me, but worked great at the TX Mile!!!
and i had a 1270w/40shot... and 0 problems with slipping!
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narider
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posted October 11, 2007 02:01 PM
I can't believe how much people talk about clutch springs and mixing/matching and brands and yet never talk about actual installed height pressures(the number one concern there is during a run)? It's like talking about and reccomending valve springs without knwoing the open and closed specs you're comparing them too.
Ali, make sure you spec any springs that go in and out both individually and as sets(Rick can do them all at once if he has a benchtop valve spring pressure tester), including free lengths in case you need to see if one weakened at the track sometime.... you'll thank yourself later.
Todd
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NOX
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posted October 11, 2007 02:03 PM
I was told the "muzzy clutch" is no more than cr250 steels..........
ANyone got a dirt bike?
Just use a lock up.........
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shiphteey
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posted October 11, 2007 04:35 PM
Of course, I'm pressed on time right now. Rick is installing the air shifter now and moving my nitrous button over to my starter button.
Lock-up would be nice but I simply don't have the funds for it, nor do I plan on running the 60 shot except for at Maxton next weekend.
Todd, you are referring to stack height, I hear what you're saying. I should have the clutch apart by some time this weekend. I'm hoping the steels and fibers look ok and height is within specs.
If MM has 6 brocks springs and had no problem with a big bore and a 40 shot, that is similar to me running a stock motor and a 60 shot, especially since I weigh much less than him and have significantly less rotating mass, thus less effort for the clutch to propel me, at least theoretically, right?
A.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted October 11, 2007 04:58 PM
Yep, I agree narider. I wish sales people would package it that way, but as of now I do not have any spring caliper things to measure pressure. So I'll just stick to my low budget pinch grip method (idiot method). Plus I saw MM's forearms and thought that would save me some time in the gym as well!
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MadMike
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posted October 11, 2007 05:09 PM
quote:
I was told the "muzzy clutch" is no more than cr250 steels..........
ANyone got a dirt bike?
Just use a lock up.........
not sure about the steels, but I know for a fact it is not the fibers... I bought one to see!
it will fit but the ID is slightly smaller and the thickness is thinner then the Kawi one's...
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MadMike
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posted October 11, 2007 05:10 PM
quote:
Yep, I agree narider. I wish sales people would package it that way, but as of now I do not have any spring caliper things to measure pressure. So I'll just stick to my low budget pinch grip method (idiot method). Plus I saw MM's forearms and thought that would save me some time in the gym as well!
LOL...
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MadMike
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posted October 11, 2007 05:13 PM
quote:
If MM has 6 brocks springs and had no problem with a big bore and a 40 shot, that is similar to me running a stock motor and a 60 shot, especially since I weigh much less than him and have significantly less rotating mass, thus less effort for the clutch to propel me, at least theoretically, right?
A.
I am sure your rims are less, but I would not say significantly less, probably slightly less. with my RC talledega's and the SLE rear rotor. and the SS lightweight rear sprocket. and only 1 rotor up front...
less mass for sure 
but not to much less rotating...
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narider
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posted October 11, 2007 09:26 PM
Ali, I didn't say anything about stack height... that's where much concentration gets lost and the reasoning for checking(or the result of changing actually) is forgotten about and more time and money then needed is spent.
Stack height changes effect spring pressures(tha'ts why most keep an eye on it rather then resetting their pressure to what work's correctly and nothing more), but spring pressure changes don't effect stack hieght(it is the desired end result that can be changed on it's own with inexpensive springs and shims, especially compared to clutch plates ).
Damn I need to sleep(1:30 and I just got home... was a chilly ride tonite, 'bout time),
Todd
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rgeorge
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posted October 12, 2007 01:52 AM
quote:
For those of you that have sprayed a 60 shot, do you think a muzzy clutch kit with 3 stiffer springs will hold a 60 shot
I have the muzzy clutch and have sprayed 70+ with no clutch slip detected.
quote:
for the mile?
Duration doesn't matter. If you are doing clutchless shifts, the clutch should not slip at all after it gets fully engaged in first gear.
Rob
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VincentHill
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posted October 12, 2007 08:24 AM
Todd, I have a Spring Pressure Tester used with a Bench Vise and a Vernier Caliper. The problem with your question is, (As Ali was speaking about) does involce the stack Height. Low Stack Lower pressure High Stack higehr pressure.
The reason for the different springs is the fact that everyone does not have the same hand strength or Power Output. You just keep "Messing Around" (The Technical Term ) until you get the best feel with NO Slip!
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narider
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posted October 12, 2007 09:19 AM
Actually, I didn't have a question.... just a statement. Your statement backs up exactly what i'm talking about though. lever pressure is not the reason for different springs(never has been and never will be), that is simply what people use them for though(just like being concerned with stack height to adjust spring pressure rather then to show wear on the firctions and steel).... it's backwards thinking and becoming more and more common.
Your single spring valve spring pressure tester will work fine though, and even works better if mounted in a small benchtop arbor press (just put a pointer off it and attach a ruler to it), where you can check all springs at once.
Todd
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NOX
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posted October 12, 2007 11:19 AM
HMM........., now where have I seen this done.............lol
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narider
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posted October 12, 2007 11:44 AM
 Edited By: narider on 12 Oct 2007 13:17
I'm not sure... am I missing something?
Todd
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VincentHill
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posted October 12, 2007 08:45 PM
Good Idea about the style of Press! I have to go through a lot of Valve Springs before I put my cyl head together. I do not trust the Steel scale to the degree I look at but will give a great mark to see the pressure.
I keep my stack Height pretty constant and before the lock up, looked for the least Spring Pressure that would not slip and did not need large forearm to operate. Some springs will sag and others less and Brock says his do not at all. I am using very light now and setting the Lock weights for the additional.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
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posted October 13, 2007 07:38 AM
That's exactly the same set up i have and i run a 60 shot. Up to this point i have no slippage in qtr mile racing or roll ons. However, i've never kept it pinned longer than 1/2 a mile. I'm actually looking to run an 80 shot but i'm afraid I might hurt my motor.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted October 18, 2007 05:56 AM
Yep, Brock's springs are superior! Used the Hand Pinch Grip Method. If anyone likes,
just send me one of those perty contraptions and I'll test all the springs you all like.
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shiphteey
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posted October 18, 2007 06:36 AM
Thanks for the input guys. I will be once again probably running the 40 shot first, if I make no mistakes, then I'll go to the 50 w/some race gas and pc changes....if I make no mistakes, then 60. I would just hate it if for some odd reason the clutch/motor goes....I would have never known how much faster I could have gone had I not done it this incremental way.
But I fully intend to spray the 60 this weekend....WOOHOO!
A.
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KZScott
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posted October 18, 2007 07:40 AM
205+ mph here he comes!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 04, 2007 08:18 AM
Well i said in my earlier post i have 3 muzzy springs and 3 stockers with muzzy clutch pack and basket. I live at a mile high location and my bike dynos around 200 hp without the juice.
I ran a 40 shot that made about 50 on the dyno at a lower altittude track. Clutch did not hold up and slipped under full throttle conditions in 3rd or 4th gear.
How much hp can the clutch handle with heavier springs or is it time for a lock up clutch? I was planning on eventually stepping up to about an 80 dry.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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KZScott
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posted November 04, 2007 11:51 AM
maybe you should just try 6 heavy? i had 6 in my bike this yr and it wasnt that hard to pull the lever. if it doesnt hold go for the lock up.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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