psycho1122
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posted September 16, 2007 06:15 AM
 Edited By: psycho1122 on 16 Sep 2007 07:16
quote:
I have NEVER seen a 1270 that made 190 SAE HP! Even the one that DOug Meyer hinself did for Motorcyclist made 180 to 182 SAE HP Remember.......
Nothing special there...Just a drop in and go. Mine has no base gasket, cams degreed and some clean up in the intake ports.
Vince, have you EVER seen a 1270 at 14:1 running on 91 pump?!?
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VincentHill
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posted September 16, 2007 09:08 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 16 Sep 2007 10:13
quote:
quote:
I have NEVER seen a 1270 that made 190 SAE HP! Even the one that DOug Meyer hinself did for Motorcyclist made 180 to 182 SAE HP Remember.......
Nothing special there...Just a drop in and go. Mine has no base gasket, cams degreed and some clean up in the intake ports.
Vince, have you EVER seen a 1270 at 14:1 running on 91 pump?!?
NOPE! ALL of the 1270 I have seen had the Base Gasket and where ever the cams were set and dialed in PC
The 186 SAE Sounds like what it should be making with higher torque but all of that for 3 more than my Stock Internal engine (To ME) is not worth the expense. (Understanding that if I was making 176 SAE HP then the 10 HP Gain was worth it!
Remember he was looking for the HP on JUST the 1270 KIT You fit what NOX said and reaped the Reward.
If I had gone with everything on a stock Bore I could have been very close and feel sure with Cam timing, Porting and raised compression and good fuel 190 SAE
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Texas12R
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posted September 16, 2007 01:22 PM
"One thing for sure, if you plan on running NOS fix the exhaust port short side and switch it to laminar flow"
Jim, wold it be possible for you to explain this in greater detail?
It could be " Laminar and Turbulent flow for Dummies" 
Or better yet would it be possible to start a new thread on this subject
with a few pics to guide me through the darkness of my ignorance?
Im certain your input on this would be greatly appreciated
....MIchael
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VincentHill
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posted September 16, 2007 02:12 PM
quote:
"One thing for sure, if you plan on running NOS fix the exhaust port short side and switch it to laminar flow"
Jim, wold it be possible for you to explain this in greater detail?
It could be " Laminar and Turbulent flow for Dummies"
Or better yet would it be possible to start a new thread on this subject
with a few pics to guide me through the darkness of my ignorance?
Im certain your input on this would be greatly appreciated
....MIchael
I already asked and hopefully he hears us!
What my thought is they use sort of a "D" Port and maybe he is Saying that we need to Round out the Bottom edge to allow the gas to FLow out and follow the contour as opposed to creating a Vacuum as the flow goes past the Drop oFF.
What ever it is, I am waiting to hear also!
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KZScott
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posted September 16, 2007 07:15 PM
might as well put the porting info in here too, im listening!
if i could get 190-200 hp with a piston kit and porting i would be happy, add 50 or so from nitrous and that "should" be enough lol
but im putting this off a bit further, i have to get some tranny parts, lost second gear this wknd. was getting my best times (better 60 fts) and next thing i know im on the trailer 
time for more billet parts!
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 17, 2007 04:09 AM
Ok, its quite simple actually. The air enters the exhaust port from those little drilled passages in the exhaust port. Althou you may read quite often that the air "dilutes" the exhaust thats not the case. That wouldnt reduce hydrocarbons. The air actually mixes with the still burning exhaust stream to supply more oxygen to continue the burning of the leftover hydrocarbons untill they all burn up. Or so thats the end goal.
So if the flow was laminar the fresh air would enter thru the hole in the roof and cling to the stream at the roof as it made its way out of the port and down the pipe.
So the port was designed to promote the mixture of the fresh air and the hydrocarbons.
This is all about reduced emitions.
One of the things they did was to make the port short side radius promote flow seperation
which induces turbulance. They did this by making the radius of the port floor small so when port velocities get to a certain level the air cant take the turn without lifting off the floor and tumbling.
Its easy to see it and actually hear this on the flow bench when testing at higher pressures.
The down side is that this flow seperation kills flow like turning on a light switch.
The flow doesnt gradually seperate, instead the pressure on the short turn gets lower and lower untill it "pops" off the floor instantly and starts drawing air back from the header side of the short turn. Again you hear this on the flow bench instantly.
So becasue we dont need that seperation becasue we have removed the clean air system and more importantly removed the catalyst, we can reshape the exhaust port to keep the airflow from seperating... ever.
So when using NOS you are moving a given % more total spent exhaust thru the exhaust port (obviously because you are making 150 more hp) and that extra flow increases velocity because the amount of available time for the exhaust cycle hasnt changed.
On the dyno, Head and manifold temps will go down slightly when port efficiency is improved.
I changed the short side on my 12r head back in 2001. Notice how well it flows compared to Carpenters cnc ported head done about the same time.
This porting plus a good heat wrap will keep thos NOS bikes cooler. As you can see here the engine and most importantly the oilpan doesnt sit on the stove burner getting cooked, and the exhaust stays hotter in the pipe which promotes better scavenging.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 17, 2007 05:07 AM
exh port
Before
After
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VincentHill
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posted September 17, 2007 12:23 PM
SO it "IS" about the "D" Shaped port and the Straight line part of the "D" creates a Vacuum that causes that! I now know why the Crank case vacuum mod now draws less vacuum because I rounded the bottom of the port to match the top of the port at a regular increase of distance. Is this the Basics of what you are saying?
I did not wrap my pipes because I am using a Sidewinder and not near the Oil pan that holds 6 quarts
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Texas12R
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posted September 17, 2007 02:42 PM
Thanks Jim! It is considerably easier with that type of explanation 
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 17, 2007 02:50 PM
Vince, you want the d port. you dont want to remove the d shape out at the flange.
The part of the short turn that casues the turbulance is about half way down to the valve on the short turn.
The D ports help keep the velocity up for scavenging effect.
Air wants to take the shortest route. So most of the flow is around the short turn.
Its not easy to explain without visual aids.
I'll try and get some diagrams up later.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 17, 2007 02:57 PM
Sometime this fall I will be offering CNC ported zx12r heads and chambers... when I get working on it then i can give more details and pics.
But i'm working on the Busa head now. Pics soon for that head.
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KZScott
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posted September 17, 2007 03:13 PM
awesome info here guys, keep it coming. i want to know as much as possible before i try anything or spend money on something.
cnc ported head that really heps with nitrous.... sounds like another one for the wish/build list
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 17, 2007 04:30 PM
Mr. Hill can you run a regular pipe with that oversized pan?
I ceramic coated my header but it sure is not the same as that wrap job!
Just curious what the stock and carpenter exhaust ports look like, if anyone has pictures?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 17, 2007 05:43 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 17 Sep 2007 19:41
quote:
Just curious what the stock and carpenter exhaust ports look like, if anyone has pictures?
I tested the carpenter head and made that sheet recently.
To tell you the truth I dont think Carpenter did much to the exhasut port from what i can see.
Hey vince, this might help show what i mean by seperation.
Its actually a velocity model in Fluent but you can get the general idea.
Notice how the air wants to go straight and leave the short side. As velocity increases this tendency increases. Remember newtons law from highschool physics ... a body in motion will stay in motion untill acted upon by .... yada yada yada... so the air wants to go straight unless somthing makes it turn.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 17, 2007 06:44 PM
I'll try and get some digital models of the Busa ports posted soon...
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mrsantafe
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posted September 17, 2007 09:55 PM
heres my progression of hp and mods: same dyno and operator
1. stock 153 hp (dynojet 250)
2. step hindle exhaust (purchased because of Mr.Hills advice) 169 hp
3. Muzzy stacks 3hp bump at 7500 rpm no peak hp 169 hp
4. pc3, custom map, bmc race filter +2 hp 171 hp
5. Carpenter 13.5 comp 1290 kit / ported head, cams, and supplied map 191 hp +20 hp
(map need tweaking due to high altitude)
6. light weight oil, muz advancer +4 degrees, ceramic wheel bearings, marchesini wheels
bear short stacks and winterized fuel 195.4 hp. / summer fuel -4 hp hmmm
7. stock clutch basket blew apart at dragstrip oops did rebuild
ceramic tranny bearings, 14.1 compression, ape lightened crank, falicon knifed edged
rods, no counterbalancer, muzzy clutch basket, robinson od 5th 6th gears, DaveO's
extended ecu.
8. Dry Nos kit with all the goddies added 50 hp.
9. I weigh 230 lb's suited best 60 ft 1.58 air density 8000+ ft abqdragway NM 5300 ft and
ran a best of 9.87@145.6 mph on motor. I'm sure with a lighter rider and sea level this
bike could run 8's properly setup.
10. stock at strip 10.84@132 best pass stock
hindle pipe- 10.50@135.6 mph best et and mph with pipe
carpenter bigbore 10.03@140 mph with a best of 142.7 mph
rest of stuff with fresh rebuild netted my new best of 9.87@145.6 mph (all motor)
Yet to get a clean pass with nos due to tranny issues.
The above info is 5 years of stress, anxiety, pleasure and pain.
Although expensive, i think the bigbore kit is worth the approximate 20 hp gain assuming one has a good pipe,pc, and all the above items done at once.
After spending all this time and money i have learned is its still not fast enough..............
Still i have enjoyed the journey and look forward to a new project soon.
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entropy
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posted September 18, 2007 03:51 AM
Jim,
those simulations are fukken hypnotic!
Da MAN and his big tool!
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 18, 2007 03:52 AM
quote:
heres my progression of hp and mods: same dyno and operator
7. stock clutch basket blew apart at dragstrip oops did rebuild
ceramic tranny bearings, 14.1 compression, ape lightened crank, falicon knifed edged
rods, no counterbalancer, muzzy clutch basket, robinson od 5th 6th gears, DaveO's
extended ecu.
mrsantafe good info....what power did it make after the above work?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 18, 2007 03:57 AM
Mr Santafe,
This is an awesome post, and records a real "voyage of discovery", eh???
IMO your mod vs hp results are very much in line with what folks ought to expect in the real world.
Kudos to you and your seemingly tireless search for improvement.
quote:
heres my progression of hp and mods: same dyno and operator
1. stock 153 hp (dynojet 250)
2. step hindle exhaust (purchased because of Mr.Hills advice) 169 hp
3. Muzzy stacks 3hp bump at 7500 rpm no peak hp 169 hp
4. pc3, custom map, bmc race filter +2 hp 171 hp
5. Carpenter 13.5 comp 1290 kit / ported head, cams, and supplied map 191 hp +20 hp
(map need tweaking due to high altitude)
6. light weight oil, muz advancer +4 degrees, ceramic wheel bearings, marchesini wheels
bear short stacks and winterized fuel 195.4 hp. / summer fuel -4 hp hmmm
7. stock clutch basket blew apart at dragstrip oops did rebuild
ceramic tranny bearings, 14.1 compression, ape lightened crank, falicon knifed edged
rods, no counterbalancer, muzzy clutch basket, robinson od 5th 6th gears, DaveO's
extended ecu.
8. Dry Nos kit with all the goddies added 50 hp.
9. I weigh 230 lb's suited best 60 ft 1.58 air density 8000+ ft abqdragway NM 5300 ft and
ran a best of 9.87@145.6 mph on motor. I'm sure with a lighter rider and sea level this
bike could run 8's properly setup.
10. stock at strip 10.84@132 best pass stock
hindle pipe- 10.50@135.6 mph best et and mph with pipe
carpenter bigbore 10.03@140 mph with a best of 142.7 mph
rest of stuff with fresh rebuild netted my new best of 9.87@145.6 mph (all motor)
Yet to get a clean pass with nos due to tranny issues.
The above info is 5 years of stress, anxiety, pleasure and pain.
Although expensive, i think the bigbore kit is worth the approximate 20 hp gain assuming one has a good pipe,pc, and all the above items done at once.
After spending all this time and money i have learned is its still not fast enough..............
Still i have enjoyed the journey and look forward to a new project soon.
____________
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psycho1122
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Posts: 1608
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posted September 18, 2007 06:58 AM
Good work Charles!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
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posted September 18, 2007 07:43 AM
Talking and Communicating! I see that the part of the port thet needs the modification is the "Start" of the turn which will give the Gas more time to make the turn. From my Porsche I know to keep the Bottom of the "D" Shape but to smooth out the radius.
Dr. Gary, "NO" If the pan was any lower it would be lower than the SHock link. If a Pipe was made to go below it all of the ground clearance would be used up! In other words a Sidewinder
Even Better Picture
I raised the Back end of the pipe which helps some but I still need to Shorten the Front section by 1/2 inch to pull the pipe in some
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 18, 2007 09:05 AM
Edited By: Seth ZX12r UK on 18 Sep 2007 10:07
Vince I think the angle of the exh port needs to be a more rounded radius which will keep the air stuck to the inside radius turn in the port and pull itself around to the exit.."laminar flow" instead of hitting the back and causing turbulence...could be wrong though..
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mrsantafe
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posted September 18, 2007 09:29 AM
Thanks for the kudos Entropy and psycho1122. Seth ZX12r UK in step #7 with more compression, etc. Haven't been back to the dyno yet but I have picked up an average 2.5 mph gain in the qtr.
Now you guys have me thinking about trying some header wrap.
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VincentHill
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posted September 18, 2007 09:34 AM
quote:
Vince I think the angle of the exh port needs to be a more rounded radius which will keep the air stuck to the inside radius turn in the port and pull itself around to the exit.."laminar flow" instead of hitting the back and causing turbulence...could be wrong though..
If you look at his picture and what he said then look at his flow picture you will see that the flow was not attached After the first turn down. What I am saying is to keep attachmentyou will have to lower the first turn to keep the air attached at the end turn. When I was looking at his pictures I saw some metal removed Before the end of the port but none at the end of the port which I did not immediately understand. (I may still not but this is what I am getting from what he said and showed
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 18, 2007 10:01 AM
Damn, its so hard to explain this stuff. Its nearly impossable to explain in words how to modify a particular port.
I wouldnt really recomend "home porting" your head anyway. Its far far easyier to ruin the flow than to improve it. Without a flow bench there is no real way to measure gains.
The biggest mistake most people make is increasing port volume WAY TOO MUCH.
Many times when i'm porting a particular head port you go back to the flow bench and find you lost flow in a particular lift range. This is very common.
Two steps forward and one back. But each time you learn what that particular port didnt like and dont repeat it. You wouldnt want to do this on your own head.
So I'll usually try and start with a junk head and expieriment with that. I have 3 such "junk" busa heads right now that are being used as test heads.
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