KZScott
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high on speed
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posted September 11, 2007 08:11 PM
porting or stroker?
hey gang, just wanted to get a little discussion going so i can learn a bit and try to focus on a goal for next yr  (or later depending on funds) I might do this in stages, so i want to have everything i do be part of the final package
Im thinking that I want to build my motor up to be a brute basically, but still be dependable and fairly streetable. I want to go big bore either way, not sure if i should go with a 1270 or 1287 kit though... would the amount of nitrous i plan to use impact this? ex: lots of nitrous = smaller bore?(1270)? ....now for street and drag strip use, what would be better along with that, a stroker crank or a professional porting job?
have at it!
thx in advance for any replies
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 11, 2007 08:15 PM
I have been wondering this too......
Only I want BIG sheer HP on motor, and reliable enough to beat up all day, three time trials and 8 rounds of elims from 10 am to 5 to 8 pm........., then do it the next day, with just a wipe down of the paint and check the oil and tires..............
Oh, fuel, fuel is good too..........lol
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 11, 2007 08:16 PM
Its like this........, it is no secret that PS car runs HUGE bore, short stroke. It s the BEST way to make hp. (other than forced induction)
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 11, 2007 08:21 PM
haha yeah, speaking of fuel, i want my bike to run on pump gas (that probably eliminates a huge shot of nitrous)
as much power as possible, while being streetable, with nitrous for anything heads up when all motor isnt quite enough....basically i want to drop well over a second on my current ET.... LOL yeah, i know i dream a lot!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 11, 2007 08:43 PM
Stroker require more frequent freshing.
Ask Doug Meyer formally from Muzzys about how timid a stroker is with good 60'.
Plan on additional mods to the oiling system if you want to race it.
I don't fully understand it, even after paying for the class.
I believe Vince Hill made 300 hp with stock bore and big nitrous.
When Coby built BUSAKILLA he used a 1287.
The 1287 has proven solid , has some head gasket problems with big spray.
Recommend different engine for both of you 1287 for NOX and 1270 w/spray for Steve.
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 11, 2007 09:38 PM
"Stroker require more frequent freshing."
looks like ill be planning on staying with the stock stroke...
"I believe Vince Hill made 300 hp with stock bore and big nitrous"
I think thats with low compression (turbo) pistons though, no good for strret use once the bottle is empty 
"When Coby built BUSAKILLA he used a 1287"
im pretty new here, did this bike set a lot of records?
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 12, 2007 02:20 AM
quote:
...
Recommend different engine for both of you 1287 for NOX and 1270 w/spray for Steve.
ditto
but a 40-50 dry shot won't get Steve his goal of a sec off his current ET, and 100+ wet shot is a very persnicaty set up; every person i know that has run one eventually takes out the motor. Some get a lot of passes, some don't, depending (apparently) on set up and attention to details.
Go for it guys. let the building begin!!!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 12, 2007 06:03 AM
whos Steve? lol
Im also planning to do other stuff to shave that second off, (air shifter and a lock up, maybe bears stacks?)....my best 60 ft was a 1.65, that can go way down, im not the best off of the line yet....(first season racing)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 12, 2007 06:05 AM
How long is your bike?
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 12, 2007 06:17 AM
Right now its about 7 over, but i can go as long as 9 over stock with my swingarm extensions
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 12, 2007 08:56 AM
quote:
"
"When Coby built BUSAKILLA he used a 1287"
im pretty new here, did this bike set a lot of records?
thx!
Don't know about records but It was a very fast zx12.
It was a busa killer!
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 12, 2007 11:30 AM
KZ Scott, send me a PM.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
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Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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TRNorBRN6001
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Posts: 2021
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posted September 12, 2007 11:50 AM
Carpenter or Coby ports seem to do very well especially with a 1270 or 1290.
Be sure to get schnitz's new box that will cut the nos off if you run lean.
Any way you go, it ain't cheap!
Good luck and keep us up to date on your build!
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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VincentHill
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posted September 13, 2007 07:44 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 13 Sep 2007 10:58
Nice to see my name and nothing Bad I have done lately!
With Flat topped CP Pistons that are 0.060" thicker on the dome and several other special things I have about 10.7 to 1 Ratio. With Bear SHort Stacks and Brock by Hindle 4-2-1 Sidewinder on 116 Octane Leaded fuel and VERY Conservative Dyno It makes 167 SAE HP no spray. Carefully tuned SPray between 270 to 320 HP depending on where I am in the set up starting with a 150 SHot and have used a 200 Shot. Ran it like this for a year until the "Sometimers disease" struck me in October last year and I made 2 passes and forgot to even arm the NOS system then made big changes to the NOS Pressure and did not change the fuel pressure. I ate part of an exhaust valve and 1 Piston and the Cylinder.
EGT was over 1,800 degrees F and A/F was leaner than 18 to 1. 170 HP "SAE" is not bad for a NOS Set up engine on stock Bore and Stroke, .100 Base Gasket, No Porting, Stock Cam timing. Only Stupidity san stop you and the new Schnitz NOS COntroller would have overcome even my Stupidity! Understand the More Off SPray Power, the Less On SPray Power!
I have "YET" to be impressed with the power increase of a 1270 or 1290 Kit. Most I have seen never made it to 185 "SAE" HP.Remember, the Power figures are advertised in STD HP. I made 183 SAE HP on stock engine and have MAX Clamping for the head gasket on a huge shot of NOS. COST?? about $800 for Pistons, About $1,000 for PC3, Timing Retard and NOS COntroller, ABout $600 for the base NX 4 nozzle NOS Wet Kit $200 for the Short Bear Stacks (Mine have a provision for NOS Injectors on the SHORT ones. SO for less than $3,000 you can make 300 HP. I would also add about $500 for NOS, Fuel and Time on the Dyno to tune this
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 13, 2007 10:46 AM
I agree with VH, I do not think a piston kit is worth it, unless you are going to go with a great set of cams, and great head work.
For a motor set up anyway.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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VincentHill
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posted September 13, 2007 12:46 PM
quote:
I agree with VH, I do not think a piston kit is worth it, unless you are going to go with a great set of cams, and great head work.
For a motor set up anyway.
I never thought about it that way, but under those circumstances it would make sense for Motor only and a Small SHot (No more than 50 or so!)
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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KZScott
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posted September 13, 2007 07:28 PM
What do you think a 1270 or 1290 kit plus a great port job would make for power? with stock cams vs aftermarket cams. what about an extended rev limit? I know thats its not one thing that makes power, its the combo....im just not sure of what works well together...yet. thats what you guys(the guys that have been there and done that) are for
I dont really want to go with a lot of nitrous to make the hp i want, just a 50 shot or so for the "tough" situations. cant have a fast drag bike and a fast-for-a-little-while street bike (fast till the bottle runs out )
thx guys, i really appreciate it
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted September 15, 2007 06:32 AM
Depending on the setup I'd guess somewhere between 190-200HP........................others would say more, but I am trying to be somewhat moderate. Drop in pistons are a good, safe, cheap way of making some more HP..........................................By far though Nos is the cheapest, but can cost the most in the end. You may just want to consider a 40 shot to start with, it still gives a real good kick.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted September 15, 2007 07:02 AM
My 1270 makes anywhere from 190-202 h.p. depending on what dyno it goes on.
I did not just "drop in" the kit like Motor Cyclist did back in the day.
Pistons were "massaged" to minimize hot spots and quench is a tight as safely possible to allow the beast to run on 91 pump.
CR is 14:1 and TQ hits 100 just before 4,000 rpm / Peaks at 111!
Stock cams, Head cleaned up (NO Porting). It's "Stupid Stock"
Now, add the Ram-Air bonus at speed and sily busa's w/ low boost or small dry shots will have a very hard time or no success at all.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
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posted September 15, 2007 01:34 PM
I have NEVER seen a 1270 that made 190 SAE HP! Even the one that DOug Meyer hinself did for Motorcyclist made 180 to 182 SAE HP Remember, Muzzy advertises in STD HP which can be 4 to 4.5% Increase in power. Add 8 HP to 182 and you have 190 STD HP. Butch Haynes a friend of mine also has a 12 with a 1270 and he made 5 HP less than I did
WHAT NOX SAID WAS GREAT ADVICE and it was Free
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted September 15, 2007 07:10 PM
Yeah, I mean, if you want that much added hp, do like me, and use U4, i mean really, do you need that hp on the street.......
My bike has never been dynoed, just brocks map, my clutch tune, u4, bear stacks, yada yada, I have given the list, and my stuff hauls the mail, and puts up a lot of mph in the 1/8 mile too.........
I have yet to see a stocker put up the numbers for mph mine does. I ran a busa heads up the round before my motor went, it had yosh cams, brock pipe, all the stuff, I went 136, so did he at 1000ft, he went 7.47, to my 7.52. I tattoed him on the tree and won. He was running u4 2 . If I had cams, I would have easily went down to mid 7.4s , and that was with a bearing trying to spin..........
10 hp is not worth all that time, tune the bike. Right now, paul stuart is running for a points championship, I hope he holds on to it.........
Dang hogs lost by 3 to bama, we screwed up early, and poured it on late, D mac was out of the game with a concussion from hitting to many bama players.......lol
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted September 16, 2007 03:11 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 16 Sep 2007 04:13
One thing for sure, if you plan on running NOS fix the exhaust port short side and switch it to laminar flow.
The zx12s exhaust port (and most bikes with fresh air ports) is designed to creat tumble on the short side so as to mix the incoming fresh air from the clean air ports in with the exhaust stream to promote the continuation of the burning of all the available hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream before they hit the catalyist.
With the cat gone and the air ports blocked off you no longer need this tumble for any reason so huge flow gains can be had on most bike exhaust ports when the short side radius (or lack of) is fixed.
This is very important in keeping exhaust temps reasonable and getting all that extra spent exhaust out the back door when using NOS.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted September 16, 2007 05:58 AM
OK< Y2K, what about the Exhaust port design and using NOS and EGT? You have my attention
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted September 16, 2007 06:01 AM
I made over 190 with a muzzy 1270 with a debured head, bear stacks, Muzzy pipe and avery good tune.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted September 16, 2007 06:12 AM
quote:
I have NEVER seen a 1270 that made 190 SAE HP! Even the one that DOug Meyer hinself did for Motorcyclist made 180 to 182 SAE HP Remember, Muzzy advertises in STD HP which can be 4 to 4.5% Increase in power. Add 8 HP to 182 and you have 190 STD HP. Butch Haynes a friend of mine also has a 12 with a 1270 and he made 5 HP less than I did
WHAT NOX SAID WAS GREAT ADVICE and it was Free
There is a first time for everything Vince 
My 1270 made 186 SAE before it was mapped!
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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