ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 28, 2006 09:44 AM
zx12 oil level question.
I don't understand how the 12r lost HP when it had
too much oil at the drag strip (remember the original RG test) .
Think about all the oil that is thrown up in the head
and the oil level low enough to unport the pickup.
The crank does not splash into the oil.
How can a little extra oil hurt this situation?
Can someone explain this is simple terms?
P.s. I really want to to try running the oils OVER the full line,
after want Karl said about the low oil pressure on launch.
Any real hp hits with this idea? Not the marketing BS.
  
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MadMike
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posted April 28, 2006 10:14 AM
I could fix your low oil pressure on the launch, with one of my oilpans... ask Karl about it...
very nice...
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted April 28, 2006 10:15 AM
If you put exactly 2800ml. of oil and new oil filter you will be fine and the oil level will be at the bottom 1/3 of the glass if the bike is on perfect level ground...
3 quarts of oil = 2836ml. of oil...so if you remove 0050ml. of oil from a quart, everything is good!!!
I cant explain why the design is sensitive to the amount of oil or why the 2000 / 2001 ZX12s have low oil pressure causing the ight to come on after a dry hop...But I do know that since I bought the 2002 it acts alot different on dry hops and never had the oil light come on as my 2000 did!!!
Im sure Mike can elaborate more and talk about the oil pan he helped create!!!
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted April 28, 2006 11:52 AM
Mad Mike I'd like one of them shiney pans, but I need one for a non-sidwinder,
I'll be running one of them regular Muzzy 4-1 Fatty systems
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MadMike
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posted April 28, 2006 02:49 PM
 Edited By: MadMike on 28 Apr 2006 15:50
Hey Bud!! we are working on that Right Now!!
I should have my mock-up pan next week and then we are going to go from there....
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted April 28, 2006 07:08 PM
Mike i'd love to have one of your pans, but i am addicted to eating on a regular basics.
I'd may have to raise the bike and run a stock pan for a while. until someone
decided to get a 14 and sell all the goodies. 
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted April 30, 2006 11:15 PM
quote:
I don't understand how the 12r lost HP when it had
too much oil at the drag strip (remember the original RG test) .
Think about all the oil that is thrown up in the head
and the oil level low enough to unport the pickup.
The crank does not splash into the oil.
How can a little extra oil hurt this situation?
Can someone explain this is simple terms?
i also don't understand why high oil levels hurt hp????
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 01, 2006 04:59 AM
Windage.........
Same reason VH found that the Muzzy basket made more hp, it is smooth............
and btw, how much oil does the Koenig pan hold...........
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MadMike
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posted May 01, 2006 05:59 AM
right at 1/2qt more then stock...
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 01, 2006 06:23 AM
schweeeeeet. I have my chassis and clutch set up right now. It is good enough I am thinking about hitting that big purse race in AL. I am looking at one of these pans hard, but daddy needs new shoes ..........literally. I gotta get a new set of boots.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 01, 2006 08:05 AM
quote:
Windage.........
Same reason VH found that the Muzzy basket made more hp, it is smooth............
and btw, how much oil does the Koenig pan hold...........
Huh?
How does the oil level effect windage when the oil is low in the pan,
especially during a launch and 1/4 run where much of the oil is in the head.
I understand the clutch basket case, which the original holes acts like a fan and the
billet is smooth. The crank has not change and it is not in contact with the oil in the pan.
I'd almost bet that their is less than a quart of oil in the pan during a run.
Why would another few ounces matter?
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entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted May 01, 2006 10:16 AM
yep, why would it matter????
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busakillerzx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 234
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posted May 01, 2006 10:28 AM
So what is the correct oil level with a filter change. I've always put 4 quarts in just to be safe.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 01, 2006 02:58 PM
3.5 with filter puts me just a hair under the top line..............
I would ask VH that one, since he is the one who did the testing. I remember he said it is like 1 or 2 hp, in back to back runs...........
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted May 01, 2006 03:27 PM
The first time I took my 2k-12r in for its mandatory oil change, I noticed a loss of power, and yes, the oil was all the way to the top of the glass. I drained bout a 1/2 quart, and she ran the way I remembered. When I talked to the mechanic about it, he was offended, and asked me if I had extra pancakes for breakfast  I'm sure I'm not alone.....
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted May 01, 2006 03:36 PM
Guys, you didnt read my post above   Here ya go, I copied it for you to read now!!!
If you put exactly 2800ml. of oil and new oil filter you will be fine and the oil level will be at the bottom 1/3 of the glass if the bike is on perfect level ground...
3 quarts of oil = 2836ml. of oil...so if you remove 0050ml. of oil from a quart, everything is good!!!
____________
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*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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MadMike
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posted May 01, 2006 03:58 PM
I always put in 4 qts... also... when ever I change the oil and filter....
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busakillerzx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 234
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posted May 01, 2006 04:28 PM
So whats the verdict. MM says 4 and i've heard 2800ml.....I'm so confused!!!
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted May 01, 2006 04:51 PM
Read your manual.........
It also says on the side of the clutch cover............., best is, fill until it is to the top line............,
if it is 3.653859766, then do it..............
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 02, 2006 06:51 PM
Top-line IS OVERFILLED...
Ricky saw as much as 7Hp loss years ago...
That ended up being the FIRST question he would ask anyone that said theyre 12 was down on power...
I have seen as much as 5Hp lost to too much oil...
As per manual...
2.5L without filter
2.8L with filter
3.6L when engine is completely dry (IE torn down, rebuilt)...
4-quarts is WAY TOOMUCH!!!
Do as C.Rocket says...(AND MANUAL) 2.8 with filter...
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted May 02, 2006 07:43 PM
I did not mean top line for hp, I meant to be safe as far as starvation...........................
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted May 03, 2006 10:30 AM
quote:
Top-line IS OVERFILLED...
As per manual...
2.5L without filter
2.8L with filter
3.6L when engine is completely dry (IE torn down, rebuilt)...
4-quarts is WAY TOOMUCH!!!
Do as C.Rocket says...(AND MANUAL) 2.8 with filter...
Kevin I have to disagree with you.... I run mine middle of the line to upper line and never have noticed any issue's. when I do a rebuild. I almost always put in 4qts.... and when I change my oil/filter it is 3.5qt... what every you decide to do NOT run it low at all!!!
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zx12mark
Pro
Posts: 1654
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posted May 03, 2006 11:20 AM
i always change the filter and put in 3 quarts mobil 1...... that puts it at the 1/2 window mark. ....2000 miles later it is at the 1/2 window mark when i change it.33,000 miles and never lost yet..
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 03, 2006 01:10 PM
3 quarts puts me at about half window or a hair below, I think it also depends on your chassis geometry, my bike is VERY low, and long.........,
3.5 still puts me below the upper line, not the upper of the window, but the line itself......., if it is hurting me in hp a hair, thats okay, low 1.4 short times and stock pan, I dont need starvation
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2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
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kcadby
Pro
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posted May 03, 2006 03:05 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 3 May 2006 16:10
I do 4 quarts with rebuild also Mike...
John has done 3 quarts with filter for 5 years...99% run-time is on DragStrip not street...
Bearings looked GREAT when I built his motor after 4 years of racing...
I agree with...whatever you decide...DON'T run it "low" (bottom line or lower)...
NOX...
I would also rather be a tad down on power if it means keeping a motor together
I have ALWAYS built motor to "last" rather than MaxedOut...FASTEST...KaBOOOM!!!
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