jus1975
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Posts: 402
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posted July 20, 2005 06:00 PM
Nitrous system
What components are needed for a complete nitrous system? I was wanting about a 50 hp wet shot.
  
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 20, 2005 06:08 PM
Go dry...schnitz kit...350ish bucks if that...comes with everything you need.
Im sure MadMike and or Doug Ray sell them (both members here)
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jus1975
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posted July 20, 2005 06:31 PM
I thought about that but I would rather have a wet system.
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MadMike
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posted July 20, 2005 09:31 PM
? why the wet system?
for only a 50 shot really the dry is the way to go, only 1 nozzle and 1 line, very very easy install and very safe up to 50hp...
and Yes I can hook you up delivered for about that cost. I will check on the wet kit but I believe that is closer to 450 for everything.
Mad Mike
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jus1975
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posted July 21, 2005 06:15 AM
I was going to start with a 50 shot and probably go more later.
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jus1975
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posted July 21, 2005 06:39 AM
My biggest concern is how do you add the extra fuel pump to the existing pump and tank.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 21, 2005 07:05 AM
dont need all that for 50hp....why make it more complicated? 
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jus1975
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posted July 21, 2005 07:09 AM
Has anyone tried the Muzzy Stealth Kit. I was interested in that. But if I'm not mistackened, didn't that kit cost around $1200. And now its $1500.
Now I'm thinking of 100 or better shot. What would I have to do. How about pistons.
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NINJA12
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posted July 21, 2005 09:25 AM
I don't think you want to spray 100 on stock pistons! Wet or Dry.
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VincentHill
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posted July 21, 2005 09:30 AM
Up to a 50 to 60 shot, Dry only needs a few button pushes on the PC3. You are now talking to someone that has Waay too much experience with a wet system and once you get over a 60 to 70 shot, you will need serious engine modifications! Again, a real pain. Again, someone that has Waay too much experience there also!  Hopefully you are less hard headed than I am but if you are not, you are in for some serious work and money!
I spent about $1,000 total for everything and went 199+ using a wet system that I used as a dry system. For about $2,000 more, I have gone 199+ with a working wet system that still has bugs to work out using a Muzzy fuel pump and a lot of engine work that I did myself. Granted, I may go 220 with what I have now and was at the limit before, but are you planning to go 220? Do you want to spend 3 to $4,000 for the extra 70 to 100 HP and lose motor only performance?
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted July 21, 2005 03:40 PM
I'm curious why everyone says stay dry, I currently have a dry system (was on the bike when i got it) but am actually almost afraid to spray for much of a duration because there is almost no way someone is going to tell me I'm not leaning out the motor which is bad. Am I just being paranoid? I admit the plumbing is a pain in the a$$ and the system adds another level of complexity but as long as you understand what needs to get done I'd think with a wet system you could get more reliable (read cheaper in the long run) horsepower. With the wet system (with it set up corretly) i'd also think you could get 75 - 100 hp as safe as 50-60 on a dry system since you don't have the problem of leaning the motor out and the extra fuel will help keeps temps down so a wet 50 shot would be down right easy on the motor compared to a dry 50. Where am I mistaken? Again I know there is more to set up with a wet system but that can be done much more percisely with fuel and nitrous pressures / nozels than you can do by just richening up the power commander. The power commander fix would also have to be done and undone depending on whether or not your going to spray, i ride much more without spraying than i do on with and don't want to have to be constantly changing things. Again help me to understand and save my money on retrofitting my dry system into a wet.
On a side note any opinions on adding a second solenoid that would close off the return fuel line when spraying a dry shot effectivly enriching the mixture by upping the fuel pressure through the injectors? That would be easy enough to wire up and kinda make it a hybrid wet / dry system. Again my goal is to make the dry shot safer on the motor until I go to a wet system. Also if I'm just being paranoid let me know I just don't want to HAVE to rebuild a motor, it's in the works anyway, but I'd rather do it on my schedule.
BTW I ride the bike on the street most of the time with hopefully more frequent trips to the strip in the near future.
Thanks
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 21, 2005 04:57 PM
I ran so many bottles through my bike with a dry kit (started with 40...got up to nearly a 100 shot) that I cant even count.....for over a year.
I was running plenty of fuel though via the power commander (+45 in most cells above 7k)
Id have no problem doing it again...bike ran 146mph on motor the last time I took it down the track after taking off the nitrous...and before the turbo project.....the motor is stout!
I did take great car in mapping the bike with spray though....actually had a wideband 02 sensor hooked up to the bike and took it out on the road for some real time datalogging to ensure I wasnt running lean on that much spray in the upper rpm ranges. It can handle it if setup properly.
Dry is no different than wet if you can provide alternate methods of increasing fuel supply to the motor....its not like the motor knows the difference between 4 extra nozzles squirting gas...or the injectors pumping more gas into the cyls.
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jus1975
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posted July 21, 2005 08:13 PM
I appreciate the input, but I agree with mlb. I thought that a 50 wet is much safer thatn a 50 dry on the engine. I also ride without spraying more than I do spraying and I don't want to hook the laptop up to spray for a little fun then have to set everything back just to ride normal. I thought with a wet system I could hit a switch to turn on the extra fuel and spray and when I was done having fun turn it off and continue riding. Is that not how it works, I could be wrong. That was the main reason I wanted a wet over a dry. I knew a dry system was less expensive and easier but I wanted to ride with ease. What do you think I should do? I still would like to know what it would take to put a small shot wet system on my 12. Can you guys help?
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted July 21, 2005 08:17 PM
there is a brand new wet kit for sale on psychobike right now. 450 I think he is asking.....
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Lorcan
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posted July 22, 2005 04:08 AM
We just threw a rod on our 50hp dry shot 1270 last weekend, looks like a nut came off the rod bolt. Motor is trashed. FWIW I think that dry is better because the fuel atomization is better than using nozzles.
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VincentHill
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posted July 22, 2005 04:57 AM
If anyone understands your thinking it is me. When you want to spray, you must have tested on a dyno with a sniffer and find out how many bars up on the fuel you must go and that is about it.
Do you Have a Power Commander?
Do you have access to a place with a Dyno that has a Sniffer?
If you have these 2 things, then you are in business. Understand I had a wet system but because of problems with the Spray nozzles and other things no fuel went through the system so in effect I had a dry system and ran 199.3 at Maxton and only had to up the bars on the PC3 by 3 bars!
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mlb
Novice Class
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posted July 22, 2005 12:55 PM
Vincent, YCIS, thanks for your input, as I read all the forums there are alot of people here who apparently know what they're talking about and your part of that group for sure. That being said my problem with the dry system still hasn't really been answered, I'm like jus1975 in that I don't want to have to carry a laptop around or mess with the PC buttons (yes I have one) everytime I want to spray and then reset it when I'm riding like a sane individual, that switch back and forth is a little more common than it should be. As for a dyno and a sniffer yes I've got both which was why I figured if I was going to go through all the testing to get the A/F right for a second "nitrous" map I might as well just do the work for a wet system. As for you loosing fuel pressure on your wet system "unbenounst to you" that is why I had intended on putting a fuel pressure cutoff just behind the fuel nozels. Any comments on raising the fuel pressure through the injectors while on spray, the more I think about it that is really starting to sound like the easiest and cheapest way of doing everything. The whoel idea is that the amount of fuel through the injectors will increase with pressure for the same injector pulse. It's a bit harder to do with the later model bikes but for my 2k it's pretty easy to bump up, I had a friend that through some modest testing actually used a similar system to richen up the bike across the board kinda like a crude PC and got the bike pretty close to what a PC eventually got him after he got the money together for one. To say the least we were pretty amazed at how well it worked for what it was.
As for fuel atomization I'm not sure I'm convinced it's not up to par with a wet system. Granted if your not spraying nitrous at the same time then the lower fuel pressure coming out of just the fuel side could be a little ugly "I'm imagining one of the Calvin stickers pissing on X" bit I'd venture a bet that says as soon as it mixes with the high pressure nitrous in the nozel before it actually hits the intake track it mixes right up into a proper mix. I might have to take a look at a system now that you've got my curiousity up though. If your right that would definately be more justification for richening through the primary injectors. I just really hate the idea of having to play with the PC that much is all.
Maybe I'm just being lazy about the PC maps since the abilty to play with it is the whole reason for getting one.
Thanks
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VincentHill
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posted July 22, 2005 03:34 PM
Lazy is the last word I would use on you!! Just remember two words "Theory" & "Pratice"
In Theory, just about everyone here agrees with you (I know I do 100%) SInce we all have been there and done that, we are talking about Pratice. Everyone here said all of the same things to me also. I will eventually get past where I was when (By accident) I had to run the bike dry. You can set the bike to run at 12 to 1 A/F Ratio and it will be about 13.3 or 13.4 to 1 with a 50 shot and do no changing what so ever. If you plan on much more than 50 to 60 (Like 100 and over) Yes go to wet but also spend money on Pistons before the fact (Before toy melt a hole in the piston)
I am done.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted July 22, 2005 03:38 PM
Just an FYI...using the MMS software....my stock injectors spent way too much time at or near 100% duty cycle at under 250hp.
Raising the fuel pressure is just a temporary solution to the problem.
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jus1975
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posted July 22, 2005 05:15 PM
Hey Vincent, let me see if I have this right. Your saying with a 50 shot dry you can set your A/F ratio at about 12 to 1. And spray and it will then be 13.3-13.4 to 1. I'm I right. And is this a normal ratio. What about the accelator pump program o the USB PC's. Will this help. There was some cosmetic items I wanted also. Can you add the Nitro and fuel gages. And how about purge systems. I know to some people these things have a use but to me I just want the look. This bike is going to be my business advertisement. So it has to wow the crowd.
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ninja12
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posted July 24, 2005 08:23 AM
Wet system are ALOT more complicated than a dry system.
Bottle pressure is critical at ALL times.
You don't have to sacrafice normal driving with a Dry kit, just richen the 80 - 100 columns.
How often do you use 80 - 100 percent throttle during normal riding?
Even with the fat map the bike will only loose a few hp at those high throttle positions.
Try to spray with low bottle pressure you go real rich real fast and actually slow the bike down, usually with a lot of popping and backfiring.
When you spray a dry kit with low bottle pressure you just get less hp than expected.
EXTERNAL NITROUS FUEL PUMP Concerns.
Please have a fuel pressure safety switch if the pump fails.
Be sure to wire the activation to ONLY work when the pump is on.
REGULATOR CONCERNS
the internal pump can supply enough fuel for the engine at full power and still have enough fuel and pressure in the return line for the nitrous. bike vary quite a bike,
Doug says stock pump good for 200 hp , others say 250, YCIS says almost 100 over stock
(175 stock hp + 75 hp nos = 250)
Once you go over 40-50 hp you nneed to reduce timing.
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VincentHill
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posted July 24, 2005 09:59 AM
quote:
Hey Vincent, let me see if I have this right. Your saying with a 50 shot dry you can set your A/F ratio at about 12 to 1. And spray and it will then be 13.3-13.4 to 1. I'm I right. And is this a normal ratio. What about the accelator pump program o the USB PC's. Will this help. There was some cosmetic items I wanted also. Can you add the Nitro and fuel gages. And how about purge systems. I know to some people these things have a use but to me I just want the look. This bike is going to be my business advertisement. So it has to wow the crowd.
That is what I said. It was not so much rich off spray that it slowed the bike very much. It takes a Separate solenoid for the "Purge" Show Off Button . Ninja has a good point about the low bottle performance. I am going to 5 pound bottles just to avoid that!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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osti33
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posted July 24, 2005 12:44 PM
5 pounders. Wow! Your not messing around Mr Hill.
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VincentHill
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posted July 24, 2005 04:16 PM
quote:
5 pounders. Wow! Your not messing around Mr Hill.
Two (2) Read that not one but two people I know that have 12's are mounting "TEN" (10) Pound bottles in their bikes!! Can you say BIG 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted July 24, 2005 04:18 PM
Hey Vince, with a 5lb. bottle that would make you the "Fast n Furious" of Motorcycles
Maybe if you pointed the Purge to the rear, it may make you go faster from the force of the nitrous leaving the bottle...
Just bustin on ya!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
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