VincentHill
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posted June 28, 2005 10:04 AM
Using a WideBand Power Commander
Doug or Doug or Ent, Is this like a closed Loop system? where it can make adjustments on the Fly? When my engine goes rich during a run, will it make adjustments fas enough to not see a power drop or do I still need to "Tune the Bike" on the Dyno?
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 28, 2005 10:29 AM
nowhere near fast enough to prevent something catastrophic IMO.
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VincentHill
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posted June 28, 2005 11:10 AM
quote:
nowhere near fast enough to prevent something catastrophic IMO.
Close enough for me? (on that part) Does it reprogram the PC to narrower Parameters so if you have spent time with it it can "Learn"??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 28, 2005 11:36 AM
 Edited By: your car is slow on 28 Jun 2005 12:36
*shrug...have to read the docs for that...ive never used it.
always thought that most closed loop systems ignored the lamba sensor at WOT anyway. Still reads it..just doesnt make changes.
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VincentHill
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posted June 28, 2005 11:48 AM
quote:
*shrug...have to read the docs for that...ive never used it.
always thought that most closed loop systems ignored the lamba sensor at WOT anyway. Still reads it..just doesnt make changes.
What good is that for Racing??? I need to look into something else. Thanks
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted June 28, 2005 11:50 AM
May be mistaken for the wideband commander....so perhaps a second opinion is in order 
Ive never used it.
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
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posted June 28, 2005 04:22 PM
The wide band commander is only a reader... not a fuel management device.
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted June 28, 2005 06:31 PM
VH I will be trying the same setup Dave Owen is using. 215 mph NA at Maxton can't be wrong.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted June 29, 2005 08:06 AM
i don't know about the wideband, but i believe it is just a sensing and recording box for AF as well as it's other channels.
I do know that the WB records at 8 samples/sec, not as good as the LM-1 (10s/s)
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VincentHill
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posted June 29, 2005 08:25 AM
quote:
VH I will be trying the same setup Dave Owen is using. 215 mph NA at Maxton can't be wrong.
Dave IS at the Head of the class and Knowledge is Key to success. As you see, I am seriously looking into it. To use what he has will cost me about $2,000 (For a Laptop, the system and the Sensors) and I do not have that right now (Maybe ever)
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
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posted June 29, 2005 08:49 AM
you don't have to use a laptop. Only in you want to adjust it in the field! You can probably borrow a laptop, even a old one would work. You could get by with maybe $500 investment, buying the LM-1 & aux sensor. $359 + $99 brand new. Biggest pain in the butt is hooking up the O2 sensor in the pipe!! I believe Dave is using a LM-1 setup!? But, it still is $500 though!
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johnnycheese
Pro
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posted June 29, 2005 10:52 AM
dave is using the LM-1 VH best bang for the buck, but there is nothing on the market that will adjust a PC3 on the fly.
get a LM-1 and either go WOT to log or No LM-1 and get on a load control dyno and load that b**ch @ WOT to read it ( you must have a person who knows how load the dyno)
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VincentHill
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posted June 29, 2005 02:19 PM
quote:
dave is using the LM-1 VH best bang for the buck, but there is nothing on the market that will adjust a PC3 on the fly.
get a LM-1 and either go WOT to log or No LM-1 and get on a load control dyno and load that b**ch @ WOT to read it ( you must have a person who knows how load the dyno)
That is exactly what I did all day Wednesday! Using an Infra Red to keep an eye on the Oil Pan, Valve Cover, Radiator and pipes while he watched the Brake temp. It took a lot of breaks to allow things to cool and he has a great set up with a LOT!! Of fresh air and it is still time consuming. Like I said, I really had the bike ready.
Once the Motor Only tuning was done and everything had cooled, we did NOS Runs at 100% and then for short (Very SHort times he would put a load on it so we could see how the A/F was reading.
WIth the New Bypass set up there was "NEVER" a lean spike and it always started the NOS in the low 13.2 or 3 range and ended up in the 12.8 to 6 Range as the bottle cooled. I was 100% happy and could not wait. Like I said, I had the Bike that could run the number and then the Fule Pump just WORE me out!.
I plan to find that POS Wire and it will never see electricity again 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted June 29, 2005 02:42 PM
Id certainly go with an LM1 if thats what you need...log things while you are actually running down the track.
Dynos are nice to get you started...but just can simulate all the forces exerted on a machine during racing.
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
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posted June 29, 2005 08:22 PM
Vincent,
You would need a standalone fuel management to run in closed loop. The LM1 or any thing else is not capable of doing itr alone....much less with a PC3r..the PC3r will not allow it.
To monitor a/f and also have a datalogger the LM-1 is the choice....with the LM-1 you could tune the bike at speed and load...
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Doug Ray
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Spencer Performance Group Inc.
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VincentHill
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posted June 30, 2005 06:20 AM
I Have spent a "Little" Time looking into everything and understand what they all cannot do.
The LM1, LMA2 LMA3. I see that the LM1 is "Capable" of reading RPM, AFR, MAP, EGT and 1 other thing I cannot remember. BUT!! it also looks like to "Read" and "RECORD" the RPM and AFR you have to have the LMA2 and to do all "5", you NEED the LMA3 attachment. "All" of this cost about $600 and to "JUST" read RPM & AFR you need the LMA2 attachment and that Kit cost about $425. Am I reading this correclty? Also because we have Stick Coils, we cannot use the Inductive loop for RPM ? Let me know what I am missing here?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
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posted June 30, 2005 06:36 AM
Edited By: addisonzx12 on 30 Jun 2005 07:42
All you need to record A/F, RPM, TPS. Is the LM-1 & the $99 RPM converter. Plus you have the ability to hook up 3 more sensors. I think Entropy is even recording MPH!!
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted June 30, 2005 06:39 AM
oyu need the LM-1 with RPM Converter......the LM3 is more than you need...it has a built in map sensor for turbo applications and a accelarometer...ect..ect.
We have the LM-1's in stock...but are waitng on the rpm converters to show up
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Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted June 30, 2005 09:33 AM
VH- Dave O. told me this morning he has everything we need and can give me (us) the hook-up price! Call me or email me privately for more info. PS I have a front wheel for you too, and rear if you need
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VincentHill
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posted June 30, 2005 06:24 PM
Then that is what I am going to do! Yes, having a Spare rear with a Mounted tire is a good Idea so I do want Both . I need to speak to Dave to see what all I need. I already have an EGT Sensor, so just putting a Bung on the pipe for the O-2 Sensor is about it (For the serious installation part) The rest only takes Brains 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
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posted July 01, 2005 09:48 AM
I record AF, RPM, MAP, airbox temp, rwmph, TP; gonna ditch one of them and start logging oil pressure.
DaveO is a VERY, VERY, VERY helpful guy, but IMO buying the LM-1 thru Doug (site sponsor) is the "right" way to go.
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VincentHill
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posted July 01, 2005 10:14 AM
Thanks ENT If I had 6 choices I would take AFR, RPM, TP, EGT, RWMPH & MAP
That is my wish list! If I was Drag Racing I would trade AirBox Temp for the Oil Pressure
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entropy
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posted July 02, 2005 09:24 PM
rw mph is real difficult to get since the output on the sensor is digital and the LM-1 has only 1 dig input (rpm). I have a custom D-A box. mph is not real valuable anyway with 10s/s.
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VincentHill
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posted July 03, 2005 09:43 AM
MPH Would be great for me to compare to the Timers to see how much wheel Spin I have? SInce RPM is the Key to everything, then it looks like I will not have MPH (Unless I get some type of Concerter?
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trenace
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posted July 25, 2005 08:26 PM
Edited By: trenace on 25 Jul 2005 21:27
Mr Hill, if you have the measured mph and the rolling circumference of your rear tire and provide the sprocket sizes and rpm, your tire slip can be figured from that.
I can either do it, or write out the calculation, or could send you an Excel spreadsheet if you have Excel.
That tire slip question is a matter of concern to me also. I haven't been able to get many who have both actual speed (whether GPS or timers) and rpm info at top speed, actually only one that helped me with that, but it looks like the rear wheel spins about 10 mph faster than actual speed in those conditions. I can definitely see where it would be good info for you to have the exact number, which that calculation could do.
I'm not sure, but I thought your most recent runs were datalogged?
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