mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 15, 2005 06:00 PM
bored of 1290, 1375??
Hello, i have a carpenter built 1290 thats been stone reliable. (it makes around 200 hp). It makes great power for what it is but...... I want more. The head is ported and has carpenter's modded cams. Can I still use some of my parts from the 1290 or do i have to buy a ton of new stuff. Will a stroker motor be reliable? I use my current bike for drag racing, track days, and riding on the street(6-8k miles per year). What will be the approximate price for such a build? Im looking for busa like torque and 210-220 hp on pump gas. What do you fellas think?
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted January 15, 2005 07:54 PM
The Cheese man has build more than a couple of stroked 12 that have made great power and are race proven to last. He just finished a 1427 that made 230 hp.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 15, 2005 08:02 PM
Hmm, food for thought!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 15, 2005 09:42 PM
You can keep everything you already have, all you need is a stroker crankshaft and the correct base spacer.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 16, 2005 05:15 AM
Im looking for busa like torque and 210-220 hp on pump gas...
aren't we all 
220 on pump gas has eluded me, even w/all the NA bells & whistles i can throw at it.
Like Bergie says, stroke it 4.6mm and you'll get that low end hp and maybe 210hp, but to get 220+ hp i had to seriously increase the CR; this really isn't cool (literally) for a street bike and SURE CANNOT use pump gas.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 16, 2005 09:27 AM
How much is a stroker crank and base spacer? Forgive my ignorance but who do i order this from and do i get the welded version or a billet crank. (not really sure if what i just said is correct). thanks! Plus how much would the labor run. I might have to let Mr. Cheese handle this one, as the incompetence of the shops around here scares me.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 16, 2005 09:41 AM
get a 4.6mm stroked welded crank, Muzzy has em. Billet is a ton more money, and weldups are fine. Take a l-o-n-g drive and drop it off at the cheezeman's, he'll do it reasonably and you'll get a great job.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted January 16, 2005 10:24 AM
I agree 110% with Entropy. Call Muzzy's get a welded up stroker and take it to the Cheeseman.
You will love the stroker motor. I love mine.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 16, 2005 03:01 PM
 Edited By: mrsantafe on 16 Jan 2005 15:05
I got this off muzzy's site:
ZX-12 1375cc Crankshaft Kit*
( for existing 1270cc kit owners
includes required piston modification, fresh rings, circlips, cyl. spacer, gaskets and crankshaft.)
*Current 1270 pistons need to be sent to Muzzys for machining.
Will this work with my 1290? Do i need to have something done to my pistons?
Entropy, i am definately willing to make the DRIVE. What's cheese's number? How long would it take to get installed if i brought the bike down? thanks!
ps: does this turn my bike into a 1395cc monster? Again forgive my ignorance on this subject.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted January 16, 2005 03:36 PM
Adding the 4.6 crank will to your 1290 will. The 1375 is using 1270 pistons with a 4.6 crank which is a 1375 kit for $2000. Too getting your crank stroke is about $750 but that does not include the labor to move and reinstall it.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 16, 2005 09:16 PM
Muzzy cuts some off the domes of the pistons to lower the compression a tad on stroker motors. This can be done by any competent machine shop but I don't know how much they remove. Maybe someone here has an old stroker piston laying around that could be measured. I would probably let the engine builder send the crank to the stroker of yall's choice. He can surely dig up the other necessary parts for the job. The Muzzy kit comes with parts specific for the 1270, not the 1290. It will be interesting to see what kind of power a 1395 with Carpenter parts will make, especially on a known dyno.
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 17, 2005 08:52 AM
Edited By: Ra12r on 17 Jan 2005 08:57
Okay, here is my perspective. I have had a stroker for several years. I have made 193HP using the factory cams, pipe and muffler(y2k mods). I could kill 200HP 1270 and 1290's!!! (Don't buy the hype your read about dyno HP vs real world results).
Originally thought that i could build a true Busa Killer with NO nos. However, there is a small displacement problem.........You don't have enough room for enough CC's!!! The same 4mm piston kit gives the busa 1425(stock crank). Now add a 5mm or 6.25mm crank (which most have) and you are looking at 1600cc's!!! You will NOT beable to hang....sorry, cc's or cubic inches will ALWAYS make more power. You are now talking 8.5's and lower on motor ONLY!
So the question is...........What are you trying to accomplish??? That will help tell you if the money is worth it. Because after it has been all said and done, U may have the fastest motor zx12........NOT the fastest bike in the area, which was my goal. Just look what it has taken Entropy to run 160mph in the 1/4. These busa's will run between 160 and 170 "before" they really get radical. Nothing personal, it is just the facts with what KMI gave us to work with......... 
Oh, as far as your pistons are concerned, strokers does not change the piston clearances, so you should be able to add a crank and spacer and be fine.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted January 17, 2005 09:31 AM
quote:
...
Oh, as far as your pistons are concerned, strokers does not change the piston clearances, so you should be able to add a crank and spacer and be fine.
Yep, with the small caveat that Krex pointed out about the dome...
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mrsantafe
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Posts: 521
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posted January 17, 2005 11:02 AM
Edited By: mrsantafe on 17 Jan 2005 11:03
Ra12, my goal is my 1290 is (simply )not enough. For what's it worth I do have one of the fastest all motor street bikes in the area and own the fastest zx12. (out here in bushland). I do not drag race competitively its a hobby. I use to own a 99 busa that was built by Lee Shierts himself. I miss the torque my old busa made. I do this go fast sh-t for fun. Adding more things to my bike keeps me motivated.
I can see why your big motored bike pulled on the 1270-s and 1290's (torque) and average hp under the curve. I'm hoping like krexken said one of the experts chimes in on the piston question.
Will my bike overheat with such a bigmotor? How about starting issues? In albuquerque it gets pretty hot with quite a few days over a hundred degrees.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 17, 2005 07:36 PM
Maybe if I wasn't so "thought provoking" I would be one of the experts......?! However, you have your answer about your piston question.
The heat is not a byproduct of the stroke. It is a byproduct of the compression. Yes, your bike will have DIFFERENT heat characteristics. A 24v starting system may be an additional benefit if you get the crank.
Concerning "NOT ENOUGH" motor, what else can I say?!?!?!?! You bought a zx12 not a gsxr1300....... Spend the money and build a 1436cc like Bear or someothers here.....(smile)......Then you can tell us if you "STILL NEED MORE CC's".
Remember, you are 80% there now, the other 20% will cost you at least a new bike. I suggest to buy the zx10r and start ahead of the game.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted January 17, 2005 09:40 PM
Ra12r thats a very good piece of advice buying a zx10r. I like that bike alot. My wife keeps telling we should get new zx10's! If i did get a literbike I'd wait until the new gsxr comes out and compare it to the ten. My wife really favors kawasaki's and i'm brand loyal to whoever makes the best bike when im in the market for a new machine.
Ra12r you make many good suggestions and i value your thoughts and comments.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted January 18, 2005 05:08 AM
Just go turbo .
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768 Ryderz
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 18, 2005 09:02 PM
If you simply add stroke to a motor, say 4mm, add a 2mm block spacer, change nothing else, you will raise the compression of the motor. You've increased the swept volume of the piston yet the area above the piston remains the same size. Yes you could add more block spacer to lower the compression but you give up the optimal squish distance between the piston and head. That's why most non-thought provoking engine builders would opt to cut the dome some.
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 19, 2005 06:52 AM
I agree with Krexen.
I do NOT suggest cutting your pistons. The increased volume of air that a stroker adds will naturally increase the compression. However, I think that it is a good thing and within a reasonable addition.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 20, 2005 03:07 AM
if you do a stroker on a 1270/1290/1317 and don't shave the pistons, you'd be wise do a careful CR measurement to decide what fuel to use.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 20, 2005 07:43 AM
We don't cut them any more. Experince has shown that the additiuonal C/R was not a problem, taht most guys running the stroker were cognizant of the need to monitor octane and timing and avoid detonation with the high C/R
Doug
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