buzard
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted November 15, 2004 01:59 PM
are any of you undercutting/back cutting your trans
are you guys having to get your trans race cut? i want to get into the mid or lower 8 second range(if i am here or it doesn't sell). no problems yet, but when the boost is at 20 psi... well i don't know. any thoughts or experience out there?
  
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 15, 2004 06:09 PM
DON'T DO IT!!!
Buy new gears from KMC or get the Billet gears from Robinson Industries.
2nd., 3rd. and 4th. gears on the output shaft have 5 small spokes and large window areas. PLUS the centers are offset from the outer gear teeth and get side loaded! The moment you "Undercut" the spokes, the gear becomes weakend.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted November 15, 2004 09:38 PM
I have had mine done! love it. shifts clean and smooth.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 16, 2004 08:16 AM
Hand Granade with the pin pulled!!
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superchuck12
Novice Class
Posts: 40
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posted November 16, 2004 12:34 PM
Hello,had mine done 2 seasons ago,4th gear was bad then,I'm glad I sent it out and had it magged,sent it back out 2 weeks ago to have it checked out again.Chuck
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted November 16, 2004 04:44 PM
quote:
Hand Granade with the pin pulled!!
isnt almost everything we are trying to do covered under this statement?
I will send mine out and have it checked also this season!
Mad Mike
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buzard
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted November 16, 2004 05:39 PM
thanks guys. sounds like getting it done may be a good idea. mike
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted November 16, 2004 05:48 PM
I'll be getting mine done at R&D.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 17, 2004 09:26 AM
You can lead a Horse to water.........
But you can't make it drink...........
Even Doug Meyer told me NOT to undercut the gears. Maybe you gentleman do not understand how poorly engineered these gears are.
They are some of the weakest gears BigK ever put into a transmission!
Undercutting just exagerates the weakpoints.
Maybe I had a unique situation w/ my trans? My engine at the time made 202 h.p./112 ft. lb. I did track days, drag racing, 196 mph runs and 20,000 miles of hard street riding. When I would do track days, I would stay in 3rd. gear 90% of the time. AFTER undercutting/magnafluxing, on the first trackday...3rd. gear gave up into a dozen pieces causing $4,000 in damage. The Undercutting/Magnafluxing was done properly just as I have had done in the past, BUT! I did not realize how much it weakend an already weak set of gears.
Good Luck Guys!
Tick. .Tock. .Tick. .Tock. .Tick. .Tock...............
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted November 17, 2004 09:31 AM
Just dont miss any shifts....lol
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 17, 2004 09:49 AM
Let what happend to matt sturbator in the "engine misfire after installation" thread be a WARNING of things to come. Especially those who have the stock gears on the output shaft undercut!
With electric shift by Translogic and a MPS 4 coil kill box, missed shifts are non-existant  . PLUS! when you run a track day in 3rd. gear except for one downshift in one slow corner....it's hard to have a "Mis-shift" 
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted November 17, 2004 10:25 AM
Don't bring my name up. This was a stock motor (171/96), stock transmission bike that's never been opened up. 14,500 miles with about 150 passes at the drag strip (foot shifting).
I won't advise for, or against the undercutting, we just got a sweet deal on a transmission that would have cost alot MORE had we just replaced it with stock parts. I'm not too concerned, just want this one to run correctly
With the kind of duty these bikes are seeing (not just pansy street riding), it's like russian roulette... someone is getting a bullet at some point.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 17, 2004 01:58 PM
I'll bring your name up due to the FACT that you had s similar failure w/ third gear.
The claim that this occured on a "stocker" w/o undercut is even MORE revealing to the weakness these gears possess.
This issue will pop up more and more as time goes by....................
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted November 17, 2004 02:37 PM
So far, in my limited knowledge on the subject, I know of 3 bikes to have spit a gear like this. The bike KCadby was working on, yours, and mine. Again, in my limited knowledge, yours was the only one to have been undercut cut at the time of destruction (the other bike, I'm not 100% about).
From the looks of things, and from these examples. Riding the bike with a stock transmission is like playing with a hand grenade with the pin pulled, and doesn't have much to do with the under cutting
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 17, 2004 02:44 PM
You must have misunderstood me....
If you study the gears themselves, it is easy to see that they are of a poor design in OE trim. They are most likely OK for standard applications. However!, You have sufferd a failure.
Undercutting will just weaken even more an already "weak" design.
It's just a matter of time.........................................................
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted November 17, 2004 06:06 PM
No, I understand what you are saying very clear, and I'm not disagreeing with you.
These gears have long since been identified as being weak, even in stock form, perhaps the weakest Kawi has ever used. Using the previous cited examples, the chance of failure is about the same whether it's the stock transmission in my 1287, or the under cut R&D transmission in the stock motor bike. So it's only a matter of time before one or the other, decides to take a vacation through the case 
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 17, 2004 06:50 PM
Billet gears will ELIMINATE the potential issue.
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted November 17, 2004 08:08 PM
Had mine done by R&D 2 years ago.Probably have over 400 passes and about 50 of them in the 8s
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 18, 2004 09:05 AM
Tick...Tock...Tick...Tock....Tick...Tock......
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
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posted November 18, 2004 09:37 AM
 Edited By: TurboBlew on 18 Nov 2004 09:38
How is this related to the trans??? The trans broke some gears... fine. But the misfire is a different problem altogether.
At the first sign of trouble.. the bike was shut off. As evidenced by further investigation... NO debris got near the cams. This issue is TOTALLY seperate from the trans issue.
Its no mystery that the bikes may have trans trouble at the strip. This was established long ago. The Hayabusa is the same way. (weak trans w/ high hp)
quote:
Let what happend to matt sturbator in the "engine misfire after installation" thread be a WARNING of things to come. ...
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 18, 2004 10:34 AM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 18 Nov 2004 10:37
I'm talking about the root of your problem.....Transmission
It's obvious you would not be where your at in the "Random Misfire" thread if the engine had not lost 3rd. gear.
This thread is about the transmission.
No clarification needed.
What was established long ago was the issues w/ the clutches, not gears letting go.
Your quote of me has been taken out of context!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted November 18, 2004 11:34 AM
The root of the problem has been fixed with a BRAND NEW R&D transmission.
quote:
I'm talking about the root of your problem.....Transmission
It's obvious you would not be where your at in the "Random Misfire" thread if the engine had not lost 3rd. gear.
This thread is about the transmission.
No clarification needed.
What was established long ago was the issues w/ the clutches, not gears letting go.
Your quote of me has been taken out of context!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 18, 2004 01:26 PM
I was also told not to bother undercutting a 12R trans, but it may help on other models. So far, knock on wood, no problem with the stockers.
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted November 18, 2004 04:20 PM
Would have gotten brand new stock parts had this deal on the new R&D trans not popped up. I'm not worrying any more than if it had a stock trans in it.
...and yes, it's been established that the stock gears are weak. So it's "tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock..." with a stock trans, under cut, or not.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 18, 2004 10:47 PM
quote:
The root of the problem has been fixed with a BRAND NEW R&D transmission.
I'm aware of that.............
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