entropy
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posted April 27, 2004 05:15 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 27 Apr 2004 06:17
Carrillo or Falicon rods in a 1427?????
Knowledgeable Dragbike Zone-ers
I am considering putting aftermarket rods in in my 1427 ZX12.
Any preference between Carrillo or Falicon???
Any things to consider or be careful with???
Any tips???
Thx in advance for your help!
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posted April 27, 2004 05:56 AM
I recall that Kevin mentioned the carillos in the 1361 kit he did did not clear the starter gear...wasnt even close.
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ra12r
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posted April 27, 2004 07:03 AM
I have the carrillos,,,,,,,waste of money. You will also have clearance issues.
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krexken
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posted April 27, 2004 02:01 PM
How about Crower. I'm pretty sure they were trying to break into the bike rod market. The car stuff they make is first rate. They look more like an OEM rod so they should clear like a stocker. Carillos are stong but they are also narrow and prone to bending with a little side loading like detonation on a offset big bore block. Dwayne at Cycle Concepts was trying to hook me up with some for my zrx but I didn't want to be the guinea pig and I didn't want to wait so I went with Carillos. I'll bet they've done some zx12s by now. If they have, they would be my choice. Does Falicon still only make Knife Rods? If so, I wouldn't buy them. Just doesn't look like a well engineered design to me. One solid piece of metal with that shape is definitely not the strongest way to go. I know Muzzy uses the stockers but I'll bet they have a great big bucket of them setting there. I'd bet they swap them at every opportunity. I know I would if I had buckets of them. LOL
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AnotherRedHead
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posted April 27, 2004 02:06 PM
carrillos arent a waste of money. Ive used them in numerous bikes, if you want big HP use them. Nearly all stroker motors have some sort of clearance issue, whether it be rods, crank, piston to valve, or porting room.....
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MadMike
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posted April 27, 2004 02:54 PM
Crower has them also! it is an 8 week lead time. cool thing you can do with them is have the nuts top mount for clearence issues.
Mad Mike
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entropy
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posted April 27, 2004 04:22 PM
some good info, thanks!
I am exploring the benefits of aftermarket rods because I was told that stouter rods might help cure my piston's "ovalizing" (John Noonan word) tendancies.
Other folks don't believe stronger rods would be any real help to the pistons.
ra12r filled me in on specifically what it takes to provide clearance on a stroker for Carrillos and I'm not real anxious to cut down my starter gear if there is no benefit.
Oh well at least I have plenty of time to gather info; i'll be down for a while waiting on new pistons. Oh well, at least i'm learning some new stuff.
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TurboBlew
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posted April 27, 2004 04:25 PM
Huh?? I though Doug Meyer said Muzzys uses stock rods in all there motors. Maybe I misread?
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entropy
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posted April 27, 2004 04:57 PM
yep, Doug is consistent in saying stock rods up to 300hp or some such.
However some folks believe the offset cylinders of the 87mm Muzzy block put some kind of load on the small end of the rods. Other folks say that theory is a just big load.
I just keep asking questions, and breaking stuff, usually its something different i'm breaking, so i guess that's progress, eh?
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tn1361
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posted April 28, 2004 03:08 PM
Entropy - Just talked to Colby Adams today. He said the same thing. Stronger rods will prevent piston "ovalization". Still not sure if this was the cause of my wrist pin wearing problem. The stock rods showed very little wear after 4000 mi. My mechanic thinks it is a clearance issue between the piston and the pins. This in turn causing an oiling problem and thus causing the wear. Will keep you updated on what I find out.
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entropy
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posted April 28, 2004 03:54 PM
tn1361 - thanks a million for the info. Who is this Colby guy, anyway?????
bahahahahahahaha!!!! J/K, he ought to know a thing or two, eh?? Does he have a specific rod recomendation?? A piston rec????
Can you share what was yr set up and what was yr pin wearing problem???
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01zx12r
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posted April 28, 2004 05:47 PM
Entropy.....Just something about what I was told is that if your piston weight is heavier than stock, replace the rods. My 1320 pistons were 7grams heavier than my stock pistons. Dont hold me to those figures its been a few weeks since I weighed them.
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entropy
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posted April 29, 2004 12:11 AM
01zx12r,
are you using aftermarket rods on yr 300HP monster???
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01zx12r
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posted April 29, 2004 01:47 AM
Yes, Carrillo. If I am correct almost 40 grams EACH lighter than stock.
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ra12r
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posted April 29, 2004 06:10 AM
Piston ovalization is not Entropy's "initial" problem. He had piston wrist pin hole ovalization.
Could you explain how stronger rods will prevent piston ovalization?
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entropy
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posted April 29, 2004 06:14 AM
Ahhhhhh, I misunderstood.
ra12r is correct. My pistons are round, but the wrist pin bosses in the pistons were "ovalized", making the wrist pins loose. I prolly shouldn't have added Ovaltine to my VP C-44.
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AnotherRedHead
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posted April 29, 2004 08:37 AM
have you done this to more than one set of pistons?
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kcadby
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posted April 29, 2004 09:14 AM
I don't understand how removing multiple ounces of MOVING weight in a motor would be a wast of money???
Yes there are clearance issues with Carrillo rods in Strokers...
machining one of the starter gears is nec...
I machine the gear AND move the gears over in the cases for clearance...
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johnnycheese
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posted April 29, 2004 09:21 AM
quote:
have you done this to more than one set of pistons?
yep and different holes each time.
It truely does look like the clearance between the pin and piston but MTC says it is correct
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ra12r
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posted April 29, 2004 11:39 AM
Kcadby, ARH....... the waste of money part is in relation to Carrillos fixing Entropy's actualy problem. My post was directed at his "question" not your "feelings" about whether Carrillo is a good product or less weight/stronger rod are better. Both of you should take a reading comprehension class as this is a "consistent problem"......DANG!!!!
I personally have Carrillos in my motor. Did I notice improvement...........?!?! Honestly I don't know, I just know that they made for alot of work and were VERY expensive. Should Entropy just buy a set just because they are stronger, I don't "think" so. Based on JCHeese stating that this is not the first time, I am begining to feel that there is an engineering issue here that has nothing to do with the rider or builder..............
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your car is slow
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posted April 29, 2004 11:56 AM
well goddam..if carillos suck donkey dick..and require so much work...what is the alternative?
is the alternative lighter than stock? do you have to machine/move the starter gear?
Complaining about a problem is one thing..providing a solution is another 
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AnotherRedHead
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posted April 29, 2004 12:01 PM
Someone give Ra12r the wahbulance.....hes hurting. Hey why dont you call muzzys and ask them!
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krexken
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posted April 29, 2004 01:54 PM
Perhaps the bores in the block aren't square with the crank so the piston is in a slight side bind all the time and the pins are taking unusual loading. I've heard of weird problems when people have used SBMs big blocks like this. If the pin/rod fit seems fine I wouldn't think a different rod would help much.
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tn1361
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posted April 29, 2004 01:59 PM
Like I said...I am having the same problem of piston wist pin ovaliztion except I have JE pistons in my stroker. One was real bad and the other 3 were not far behind. I agree with Johnnycheese, it appears to be a clearance problem between pin and piston.
Does anyone know if Carrillo rods are worth the money ? I know they are stronger but I have been told that the stock rods are pleanty strong enough. Was wondering if there is any performance to be gained and how much. A set of these rods are a lot of money and would like to know the return on my investment.
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zrxdean
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posted April 29, 2004 02:08 PM
"Kcadby, ARH....... the waste of money part is in relation to Carrillos fixing Entropy's actualy problem. My post was directed at his "question" not your "feelings" about whether Carrillo is a good product or less weight/stronger rod are better. Both of you should take a reading comprehension class as this is a "consistent problem"......DANG!!!!"
WRONG. Read your own posts. After entropy's initial post, in which nothing was said about ovalization, you stated flatly and without explanation that Carrillos were a waste of money. See now?
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