Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted September 25, 2003 03:36 AM
I am fortunate enough to have 2 sets of wheels. It's a must for me the way I go through tires. But I will admit, this last Gap trip was a shocker with me not changing the at least the rear tire. That damned M1 made me proud.  Of course I had to be nice and couldn't shred it when I rode 2-up. I just carried good corner speed and was smooth with the gas on exits. Plus even when I wasn't riding 2-up I tried to carry one gear higher than I normally do through the corner. It's working so far......
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
  
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted September 25, 2003 07:30 AM
I have a tire machine & balancer in my garage. I change tires when they don't feel "right" anymore, regardless of how much tread they have left. It's not cheap, but it keeps me confident at speed.
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted September 25, 2003 07:43 AM
quote:
I have a tire machine & balancer in my garage.
Why am I not surprised? 
I have a manual machine, but balancing is a bit of trick for my dumb redneck ass.
I'm assuming you have a manual balancer and not a shop equivalent machine.
Do you use the 'bubble' type balancer or the axis type - where you put the wheel on an axle and spin it? Which one worked better for you?
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k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
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posted September 25, 2003 08:05 AM
Axis type. Good size bearings and no detectible drag at all. I even treated the rollers with Microlon. This thing flat works. Kinda a "balance" between static & dynamic balancing if you think about it. Mine has attachements that allow me to true wheels also (for motocross), check axles for run-out, and even do crank truing! I think "K&L" & "Handy Industries" use to sell some pretty economically priced units that work well also.
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Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
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posted September 27, 2003 03:58 AM
I just got spoiled on Pirellis. I'm spoiled rotten. lol
My last change of tires were due to front needing changed. The rear might have had enough for the Gap trip But I decided to not chance it.
The profile on the Dragon is awesome and it sticks like glue. The pilots stuck real good but the turn in was different and so there went my comfort level. I think theres something to be said for the damm 6 inch rim they stuck us with on the 12. The 190/55 seems like the only reasonable choice because of rim dia, Just me thinking out loud.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted September 27, 2003 05:32 AM
I've tried 190's (Dunlop) & the bike seems to steer slightly quicker alright...
I would have left it like that but I every once & awhile wind out 6th gear, & I like the idea of the parallel steel belts of the 200 series Dunlop. It was specifically made for the ZX12r, & is more likely to remain together at top speed. Makes me feel safer as other tires are not made for the sustained high speeds these bikes go? (anyone know what the other brands top speed ratings are???)
That little thought in the back of my mind made me regrettably change back to a 200. I noticed no loss of stability w/the smaller tire; just increased speed in side to side transisions which make TIGHT twisties a joy on the big Ninja.
Now I miss the quick steering of the 190; I never tried a 180 as the profile (to me) is not broad enough w/mounted on a 6" rim. I'm real afraid of riding off the edge of the tread like you could do in the old days (you older fellas w/remember that.)
So, for safeties sake, I'm back on a 200 for now unless I can find documented proof other tires are rated for the top speed of this bike.
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted September 27, 2003 09:23 AM
Dave... long before the 200mm tire.. there was only the 180 and 190 tires.
If going by Landspeed records is any indication... 180mm tire is fine.
Personally, a good road race tire like a Rennsport or Pilot Sport or Super Corsa would work fine. Just look at the speeds at Daytona... for well over 3/4 mile leaned over. Hope that eases your mind. 
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted September 27, 2003 09:33 AM
Great points..........
This is a great thread eh. Some very good points have been made for sure.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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JoshDunn
Expert Class
Posts: 373
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posted September 28, 2003 03:28 PM
What about a 60 or 65 series in the front,I can use most of the rear tire but it seems you would have to go way way over to use all of the front it is so peaky, I think a lower more round front would give better front contact and lower the front a bit at the same time, What do you guys think.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 28, 2003 05:30 PM
i beleive redelk has tried both. he definitely recommended against the 60. not stable at all. dont know if he's still in teh process of evaluating the 65.
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JoshDUnn
Expert Class
Posts: 373
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posted September 28, 2003 05:33 PM
If you went with a 190/50 on the rear and a 120/65 on the front wouldn't they both be lower so it should handle like stock? only better
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted September 28, 2003 05:42 PM
You dont want anything less than a 70mm front profile. The 60s are too "twitchy"
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted September 28, 2003 10:15 PM
EastBayDave. Atleast the Michelin Pilot Sports in the HPX are rated expecially for higher speeds. If I remember right they rate it over 300km/h as the usualt W rate is over 270km/h. And You can get it also in 190. But when I measured - as I said - also the 200 was 'only' 190. And about the using 60series in front usually makes the tire too hard for sreet - so nobody recommends them - usually...
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted September 29, 2003 05:09 AM
My 1.5 cents (from someone with no sense and even less riding skill)...
1. A 120/60 is a total waste of time. It's so damn twitchy that you'll spend more time in the garage trying to sort out the suspension than riding. You have work too hard in making corrections to you slightest steering input.
2. I've only run a 190/50 rear one time and that was when I first got the bike and getting a 200/50 was still fairly difficult. Since I was waiting for the 200 to arrive, I never really bothered to get the sag and such set up for the shorter 190.
3. Depending on the brand of tire, a 190 could be as much as 3/4" lower in height when compared to a 180/55 or 200/50. This is not a "bad thing". It just means that it's important to reset the sag and adjust the suspension in order to take full advantage of it. Again, depending on the brand, the 180/55 and 200/50 are very close in height... even on a 6" rim.
4. I found combination of a of a 120/65 and 180/55 to give some fairly crisp handling. This was when I was using Pilot Sports. This might not be the case with other brands. I don't know.
5. Switching to a 7R swingarm made the above combination unacceptable.
6. For the longest time, I was a big fan of the predictable nature of Dunlops. That was until Lucky 12 turned me on to both Pilot Sports and the 180/55. Switching swingarms give me a good lesson in what a difference there is between tire brands. Even after going back to a 120/70, the Pilot Sports still didn't feel quite right. I just couldn't get the suspension sorted out.
7. When I switched to the Diablo Corsas, everything just fell in to place. I would like to try a 190/55, but that would mean switching to a Super Corsa and that's a tad pricey move. One I currently can not afford.
8. IMHO, a 120/70 is the best for the front. Either a 180/55 or 190/50 (or 55) is far superior to the 200/50. No doubt about it. No matter what the brand of tire.
9. Though the steel belts of the 200 or HPX tires probably reduce tire growth at higher speed, I do not fell that the 180 or 190 would be any less safe then 200 at high speed. Too many riders, in various competitive events, have regularly gone speeds we only rarely attain and do so with no problem. Even on the same DOT tires we use. I just don't think that those steel belts provide any significant advantage in either safety or overall handling.
10. If one was to spend a hour or more at speeds above 170, the above might not apply. If one would fall into that catagory on a regular basis, I would likely stick with a steel belted tire on back.
All of this is just words and opinions from someone (me) who doesn't have a clue on what he talking about.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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JoshDunn
Expert Class
Posts: 373
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posted September 29, 2003 12:24 PM
If I don't want to touch the suspension it sounds like a 180/55 is better than a 190/50 because of the height difference, Right?
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted September 29, 2003 02:50 PM
Sadly, you should at least check and/or set the sag at EVERY tire change. Yeah, it usually takes three or more folks to do it, but it only takes 15~20 minutes. That's is if you don't have shock wrench.
Even when you using the same size and brand of tires.
It's kinda like how I keep harping about checking/recharging the rear shock. It's supposed to have 143 psi of nitrogen. When I first checked mine, after a couple of years, it had 60 psi. Stuff like that make just about anything you do in the way of tires or suspension setting... pointless. The same would apply to oil fork oil.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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