BA
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posted July 26, 2003 01:08 PM
 Edited By: BA on 9 Sep 2003 19:32
*** UPDATE *** RUNNING VERY RICH,....don't know why....
My bike seems to have developed an odd problem, but I can't pinpoint what's causing it.
Below 4000rpm, especially trying to accelerate normally away from a light, it is not smooth at all. It want's to hesitate and rides almost like it has a miss, or at least not full 100% spark on all cylinders. It's hard to be smooth, it kinda 'baubles' unless I really slip the clutch out with some RPM.
I disconnected the PCIIIR and the problem is still there.
Yesterday, while running around the interstate with NUTEC5 at around 6000-7000rpm to 'clean' plugs for the hell of it, I noticed that sometimes there was a little bit of surging as well. (35 mile ride, some of it at 8000rpm)
I had removed my air filters for some racing and am about to put them back in. Does anyone think that caused it? I'm **PRETTY SURE** that I ran my low ET's back in 2001 w/o the filters.
Oh yeah, at Wide Open Throttle the bike seems to run very well.
Could a sensor or something be going out???
I'll go put the filters back in....
I'll probably pull the plugs as well, but wasn't looking forward to it. 
Anyone have advice or seen similar driveability problems?
  
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BA
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Posts: 1592
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posted July 26, 2003 02:42 PM
More info:
I seem to have a really bad "miss" or stumble or whatever at 1500-2000rpm. I think that is why it is feeling so bad on take off, but it doesn't explain surging at other RPM's.
Another symptom is that sometimes (frequently) at less than 3000rpm's, if I give the throttle just a little twist from say 5% and twist to say 10-15%, no more than 20%, I get a big lag in response. It's bad. Easily 1/2 to 1 Second in time.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 26, 2003 04:16 PM
Sounds like the typical muzzy pipe stumble...did you remove some timing off the bike? Mine does the same thing without timing added.
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BA
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posted July 26, 2003 05:54 PM
I was thinking TPS adjustment or the like, but I thought the PCIIIR throttle setting did the same thing?? It looked right in the software, when I had it hooked up yesterday.
I'm running the HMF pipe right now. I don't ever remember it being this bad. I've always had the timing set in the PCIIIR, and I don't have a mech. one so with it unplugged, I'm basically stock but piped.
I've changed plugs and it did seem to help a little bit, but the PCIIIR is still unplugged so tomorrow I'll connect it back up, it's got timing down low in the map, maybe that and the low end fuel adjustments in the map will help cure the rest of it.  ??
I must have bad bike karma. I have yet to get to a track and INDY is 2 weeks away. geez.
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted July 27, 2003 09:08 AM
I have the same thing on my '02 with full Muzzy pipe. Tweaked the map and I run a mechanical advancer with @4 degrees advance.
Tweaked map helped a lot - but it's still there. Custom map on order.
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
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posted July 27, 2003 01:14 PM
hey Jon...I have the same set up as you. Took it to Kevin in Jax, and he worked miricles with the map... It still has a very slight dead spot between 1500-2000, but after that, it is spot on....and doesnt even get bad gas milage....lol But it aint good gas milage either....Jim
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vmaxwayne
Expert Class
Posts: 228
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posted July 27, 2003 03:05 PM
Had the same problem with mine and the Yosh system.
Removed some fuel in the upper quadrant and the problem went away.
It also removed the idle surging and the stumble off of idle.
W.
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swft
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Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted July 27, 2003 03:15 PM
BA - the throttle setting in the PC3R is just to calibrate the PC to the actual throttle position. It don't do nuthing for the relationship of the TPS to the ECU. IMHO, you should RSVP a DJTC and have them use TL!
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kcadby
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posted July 27, 2003 08:45 PM
What...if anything got done...or changed (besides shift forks) on the bike before this started???
Might have a vaccum leak to a sensor?
It is NOT good to ride the bike without filter...front tire throws WAY more dirt in front of the bike/intake than you might think...(dirt road ridding experience)...
I sure you'll say your not on dirt roads but...roads ARE dirty...
I have MANY Ks of miles without filters when I was younger but won't do it (on the street) anymore...
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jonwright
Needs a job
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posted July 27, 2003 08:46 PM
...and do it ASAP IMHO ROTFLMAO. 'course, if you delay, it could be FUBAR'd or AFU'd. Just be sure to run it WFO ASAP the next AM.
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BA
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Posts: 1592
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posted July 28, 2003 01:09 PM
I guess I'll check my TPS voltage since it's never been done.
The ONLY SENSOR that has been touched is that one on the Access Cover under the fuel tank. Right above the throttle bodies.
What the heck does that sensor do anyway??
I hooked up my O2 sensor again and WOW, I'm pegging the scales at being RICH. Any RPM, when sitting in nuetral, is way rich right now.
I need to mount the gauge permanently again to take it for a test drive and see if it's rich when riding around too. I'm guessing it will still be rich.
This seems to be a clue as to why it's running poorly and want's to die.
Would that sensor I mentioned above make it run rich if it were bad?
My temp gauge is working fine, I don't guess that any temp sensor might be causing this, eh?
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 28, 2003 01:41 PM
Thats the airbox temp sensor.
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BA
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posted July 29, 2003 07:30 PM
well, I did find out "some" new info.
The bike is very rich, as in 12.0 or richer from 2500rpm and UP
Oddly, the bike is killer LEAN, like, 16.0 or leaner BELOW 2500.
That wouldn't be any kind of TPS setting I wouldnt think, would it?
WTF? It ran like crap without the PCIIIR in, but I guess now I have to unplug it AGAIN to see what the A/F ratio does per the O2 sensor.
(the map I have is my same old tried and true map, and I even reloaded it to be sure)
If I damaged my airbox temp sensor, would it act like this?
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necro
Needs a job
My Grandma Is A Virgin
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posted July 29, 2003 09:19 PM
quote:
It is NOT good to ride the bike without filter...front tire throws WAY more dirt in front of the bike/intake than you might think...
Tell me about it. I raced my ZX6R two years ago for a whole season. Will not do that again.
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BA
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posted July 31, 2003 08:22 AM
Edited By: BA on 31 Jul 2003 20:00
I REALLY need some advice on what might be causing my bike to be REALLY rich now.
The only "changes" were that the radiator and pipe were off and back on, and the temperature sensor in the access plate may or may not be working.
Temp gauge is working, bike still seems pretty strong, but it doesn't idle well, blows a little black smoke, and the O2 sensor says it's about 12.0 to 1 all through the RPM range.
Any thoughts? I was hoping to run in Indy on August 9th and 10th.
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted July 31, 2003 05:18 PM
BA...I have a problem with my 2000, the PC3r went bad with way too much gas in the oil, blowing smoke black and white at times...I removed the Pc3r and the bike ran better and the smoke went away, but then white smoke came back while riding in traffic with the fresh oil...
I find out now that I have a bad head gasket, oil in antifreeze...Hmmm, I wonder if the bad PC3r dumping too much fuel over time ruined the gasket???...I took care of my 12 in extreme, oil changes every 1000 miles and extra oil changes after weekend DragRacing with RedLine 10-40 synthetic...The 12 has 13,700 miles on it and I didnt abuse it like the stunt guys do...You guys know the occasional rolling holeshots, some fast street/highway riding, has 165 DragStrip passes...I really believe that the Bad PC3r finished the gasket!!!
Next week the motor comes out and will see what the damage is!!!
CrotchRocket
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted July 31, 2003 07:36 PM
Edited By: your car is slow on 31 Jul 2003 20:38
you say the temp gauge is working properly? You sure you didnt yank or bust or snap or fray one of the temp sensor wires on the block (the ones we use for the resistor mod). I can see removing the rad and pipe the chance of damaging that sensor or the wires comin off it.
Is it possible one of your plugs isnt firing? that would certainly cause a lean condition and the bike would run like shit
fouled plugs would also cause similar symptoms.
The computer doesnt have the ability to adjust for a rich condition (although you already know that) and I cant see any reason why it would dump MORE fuel into the motor by just removing the rad and pipe unless its getting bogus data.
I also fail to see how NUTEC5 would "clean" your plugs...isnt that much higher octane stuff? Id think it would do exactly the opposite unless you were runnin the bike at max rpm the entire time you rode it
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BA
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posted August 01, 2003 04:31 AM
I was kinda leading down the path that I did something like that Brian. Broke some wire that might cause a rich condition....
I just don't have a clue if that's a possible cause or not. From memory, it seems like there's only two connections to disconnect when removing the radiator. (not counting the horn) Seems like one would be the fan and one the temp sensor?
I've never done nor seen the resistor mod so I'm a little in the dark on that, but I was aware of it and wondering if my condition is the same.
I did change the plugs and the richness is still there. I think the "low RPM stumbling" thing was because it was SO DAMN LEAN below 2500.
Nutec is toxic stuff man. I'm not sure of it's octane, but I did run the bike at 7000rpm for about 45 min on the hiway.  (with a couple of little bursts in-between)
I'm wondering if my ECU is showing codes or something. They do that, right? Maybe there's something there to see. ??
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 01, 2003 05:46 AM
Im pretty sure the FI light comes on if there is an error detected by the ECU.
Ill see if I can find a photo of the temp sensor for the resistor mod. I not looking at the bike..but If I recall correctly..its on the lower left front of the engine itself behind the radiator.
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BA
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posted August 01, 2003 03:21 PM
I had thought that about the ECU as well, but I'm grasping at straws as you can see!
I think I'll go kick my bike over now.
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BA
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posted August 01, 2003 06:19 PM
Edited By: BA on 1 Aug 2003 21:32
HOLY CRAP it's gettin very ugly up in here!!! Now I'm seriously concerned!
I think I saw the sensor Brian. Right above the exhaust pipe, left side.
I did a voltage and ohm check on that connection and then on the radiator temp sensor for the hell of it with the engine dead cold. (got something like 430 ohms on one, and 2.7-3.1 mv on the other, whatever that means)
I disconnected the PCIIIR once again. Then I went for a ride.
putting around at <4000rpm, I was getting about a 12.5 A/F ratio WITHOUT the power commander. After about 10 minutes I got to a straight, clear part of the road and went to 2nd gear and gave it a big twist!!
It started breaking up at around 7000rpm! I shifted to 3rd, hit it again and once the revs got a little bit up there around 7k-8k, it started breaking up again.
I putzed back down to 40mph-50mph, 6th gear, .....all is running normal, A/F still at 12.5 or so.
I go back to 2nd gear, hit it again and once again, it breaks up. It's hard to describe, but it's like you're hitting on all 4 cylinders, then, someone takes away two of them. It practically falls on it's face. So, power and timing just seem all wrong instantly. A/F ratio stayed at 12.5 during the 'breaking up'.
Cruised home slowly, no problems. Even taking off from a stop is basically what I've come to expect lately as 'ok'. Certainly not perfect though.
Is this starting to sound coil-ish? Is there an easy way to check? Maybe ohm them out or something?? Can't understand why it still seems ok under 4000rpm. :-/
I really don't want to take it to a shop that I'm not even sure I can trust......
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted August 01, 2003 06:54 PM
BA...Call up Muzzys ask them if they had ever experienced what you are!!!...Does it break up at 7000rpm while reving it on the stand???...Does it break up all the way to redline???...Maybe you have a fuel pressure problem, fuel blockage from bad gas???...Take off the tank, check out the pump...Put in Techron fuel injector cleaner, maybe that will help...
Hope that helps???
CrotchRocket
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CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted August 03, 2003 04:55 PM
BA, did you do anything to the 12 over the weekend?
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
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BA
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posted September 09, 2003 06:34 PM
Edited By: BA on 9 Sep 2003 19:46
So, are you ready to hear what the problem was. I'll have to re-read the thread, but I don't think anyone figured this one.
It was a cracked hose at the Pressure Sensor located on the left / upper side of the engine. The sensor and rubber hose get pressure sensor info from each throttle body I believe.
Thanks to everyone for your help, and to Doug Meyer for talking to me at Indy and trying to help as well.
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BA
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Posts: 1592
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posted September 09, 2003 06:45 PM
Edited By: BA on 9 Sep 2003 19:46
I have to take that back.
Kevin Catby said: quote:
Might have a vaccum leak to a sensor?
...perhaps I should have asked what the hell that meant because I sure as hell didn't know!
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