frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted July 22, 2003 12:35 PM
what exactly do you have to do to get a 12 to be able to handle 13000+ RPM reliably? i assume it's mostly a matter of balancing the internals (crank, matched rods & pistons). anything else? and how well does it have to be balanced? any decent engine shop would do or is this the kind of thing u should only trust to the likes of Velasco or Muzzys?
   
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted July 22, 2003 12:56 PM
Kawachan, sorry I meant that comment for Dan and yes he has a 1361.
FrEEk,
The determining factor in "using" the larger pipe is total airflow through the engine. Flow requirements go up with displacement or RPM or both.
Assuming your balance is at least as good as stock, balance has very little to do with it. Increases in RPM and stroke length increase piston speed and ultimately this is one limiting factor. Lighter pistons help raise this limit (less load on the rod and piston pin and pin boss when the piston reverses direction at the top of the stroke). Camshafts have to be deisgned to keep the valves under control and the rest of the valve gear (mainly springs) need to be upgraded as well. Matching the weights of the rod/piston asssemblies is the only part you need to really pay attention and builder with a triple beam scale, common sense and a grinder can do that. The "flat" crank in a 12 is naturally in primary balance and unless you alter it, it remains that way.
Doug
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted July 22, 2003 02:00 PM
are the 1270 kit pistons lighter than stock? basically what i'm trying to ask is, what would i have to do to get my engine to reliably handle 13,000rpm? 14,000rpm?
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted July 22, 2003 02:13 PM
FrEEk
Our cams and valve spring kit plus an MMS ECU to allow the higher rev limit and maybe some higher capacity injectors (allow a lower duty cycle % at a higher rpm).
Doug
|
zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
|
posted July 22, 2003 02:29 PM
Great info.
Sorry to go off topic, but speaking of Pro Stock, what happened this past weekend Doug / Rob? I was sorry to read the qualifying reports.
Dean
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted July 22, 2003 04:08 PM
cool. thx. would LOVE to have a 14,000rpm capable 1270. that would most decidedly rock!
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted July 22, 2003 04:14 PM
sure,try and launch that beast,if your not in the power band it'll probably bog right out.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted July 22, 2003 07:17 PM
Dean-
update on muzzys.com/racing
|
ZX12R NINJA
Expert Class
Posts: 113
|
posted July 22, 2003 09:58 PM
Thanks for all the info gents, but this is getting over my head. I am learning allot. Thanks again.
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted July 25, 2003 09:49 AM
 Edited By: ninja12 on 25 Jul 2003 10:50
"For drag race purposes stock stroke can be reved up to 13,200. Stroked motors 13,000. Pro Stock you better be able to run 13,500 or don't go. "
How do you get a engine to live up there?
Well balanced i know, but would you opt for tight or loose tolerance on the
rod bearings? What else, Not asking for Top secret info just the basics.
Thanks.
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted July 25, 2003 09:57 AM
doug mentioned above that valvetrain and electronics are the main prob. but i'm sure the things u mention are required for reliability too.
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted July 25, 2003 02:33 PM
ninja 12...
As Doug said...piston weight makes a diff. on max revs also...
I can tell you that the 1317 pistons we got for "blink" ARE LIGHTER than the 1270 pistons that I took out of his motor 
|
jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
|
posted July 27, 2003 09:17 AM
I'd love a 1270 for road racing. Man, hearing that booger peak out at 13k would make me cream my pants.
Launch? Hell....I'd be looking for darkies exiting corners and wheelies if it's hooked up!
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted July 27, 2003 12:15 PM
quote:
Go to:
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX-12_Pro/index.html
Doug,
Would this pipe ruin the streetability of a 212 hp 1361?
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted July 28, 2003 07:47 AM
I wouldn't think so. That's the kind of engine it's perfect for.
Doug
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted July 28, 2003 05:52 PM
By the Muzzy web site,it sounds like it is for only running high RPM(without regard for street performance needs).no midrange?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted July 28, 2003 08:17 PM
No, it says the greatest benefit will result from larger engines or smaller ones spinning faster. Either case results in greater flow through the engine. What we wanted to make clear is that you won't get AS GREAT a benefit with a smaller or stock engine. Again, each combination is different.
Doug
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted July 29, 2003 07:54 PM
Doug,
Just one more question,the add says "increases of up to 6% over the standard Muzzy 4-2-1 pipe can be achieved" What does that mean? Does is mean if a standard Muzzy pipe yields a 10% increases, this pipe could give a 16% increase. Or, does it mean if the standard Muzzy pipe yields a 20 hp increases, this pipe would give 21.2 hp or a 6% increase of the increase ?
Thanks,
quote:
I wouldn't think so. That's the kind of engine it's perfect for.
Doug
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC