Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted June 03, 2003 07:20 AM
Otis, you're cruisin' for a bruisin' you stupid MF....
Otis,
If I want any lip from you I'll scrape it off my zipper. Pipe the fuck down and knit a sweater or something.  Damned Martha Stewart wannabe BIATCH!!!!! 
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
  
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 03, 2003 07:38 AM
A couple of point I want to make perfectly clear.
1. This rant of mine has nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with my feeling concerning any past disagreements. As I had stated in my post, I have moved on. Any reference to "others" is an edited change solely by the request of "others", since they have no dog in THIS concluded fight.
2. This thread also has nothing to do with my opinion of other board member of this or any other forum. Of course, with the exclusion of Dale.
Outlaw, first I welcome you to our humble forum.
2. I also think if you would spend some time here, you would realize that your believe in that those who post here and feel that they are in someway beeter then those that post at Dale's site... is solely a misconception on your part. As you can see, there are many that have chosen to be active on both forums.
3. Outlaw, I can understand if you do not read many of my often long and rambling posts. Many would agree with you that they are boring and offer little in the way of content. The reason for their length is because I take great care in the selection of which words I use to get my point across.
Even with the great care, it appear I was not successful in get my viewpoint across to you. For example, you said, "Calling people stupid and other names will only make things worse.". The problem is that I have not called anyone "stupid". Please do not confuse the word "ignorance" with stupid. They are NOT the same and thier meanings are VERY different. That differnce in meaning is why I point out that I called NO ONE stupid.
4. As for my other choice of words, such as "liar", the are all based on facts that easily support the use of such words.
5.As posted earlier, Dale has stated, "Customer satisfaction 100% I think they look great.". I did not at anytime say that they were not what Dale wanted. I said that the first run did not meet my personal standards. Since I try to produce a quality product, I had my crew rerun the job.
Since the problems I saw in the first run were so minor and by most standards, would be acceptable to most clients, I gave Dale both runs and only charged him for one.
6. I also shipped both runs from Arkansas to Canada, second day (I believe) and did not charge him for any shipping costs. This was not because I was late with the job. It was because I wanted to.
7. His reference to wanting a "higher quality of vinyl" was insulting because this was something we discussed at great length. We agrred to use a clear vinyl that was removable since any other adhesive would pop off the paint of a fairing if the owner had tried to remove the decal.
8. His comments about this or any other issue was never once brought to my attention. In the 45 years our company has been in business, if something we produce is not satisfactory, even if some amount of time has passed (i.e. TWO YEARS)... I want to know about it. That's because if it is not right in my client's view, it's not right in mine. To not be at least given a chance to address or correct, yet have them slam me and my company on a public forum is what I take offense to.
9. His comments concerning the artwork I sent him were completely out of line and with no basis in fact. His monitor screen may show jagged edges because of the resolution he operates it at, but the art in itself does not have ANY jagged edges. It's a EPS vectored file.
10. It is these facts concerning Dale's comments toward my company that I take great offense to. If it were directed towards me personally, I would not have any problem with it. Have worked at the same place for over 28 years, I do have a certain loyalty and dedication to it that transcends any I might have to any web forum. It is that loyality is why I will defend my company's good name and hard earned reputation.
Finally, again, I would like to welcome you to our forum.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
MrMurphy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
|
posted June 03, 2003 09:18 AM
AFAIK, Easy was going to have some new decals done and figured RedElk wasn't interested because of some nasty law-suit threatening emails he thoughtfully fired on Fishantlers' behalf a while back when the two websites had their little catfight (and, uh, aren't Fish and Easy on civil terms right now? I've talked to both and neither seems overly mad about what they both call water under the bridge). Boo Hoo, seems like a valid reason to seek another supplier to me, even though he has admitted time and time again that the original work (I have one on my bike, and agree) was great. If I kick you in the balls after selling you some stickers, I sure wouldn't be surprised when you don't do future business with me lol.
I know its trendy to blow shit outta proportion on forums to try and cause shit, but some people talking harassment on 3 ISP's and 2 websites ought to cool down considering its against all codes of conduct and creeping up on some laws rapidly. Its not funny when you cross the dickhead line and start talking harassment or threats, and start mentioning where people with wives and children live.
|
MrMurphy
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
|
posted June 03, 2003 09:22 AM
PS. hit me up for a ride sometime Fish, haven't seen heads or tails of ya since the toy run. You going to be at sportbike west?
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 03, 2003 11:08 AM
Dale throws out this "lawsuit" issue while offering little details. I threatened nothing. I just pointed out the ramifications of his illegal conduct... which he has obviously since ceased. Semantics? Yes, it is. The thing is, in such serious matters, one needs to be clear on what the meaning of "is" is. This is not an issue I will air publicly nor do I find any need to do so. He understood my point and has addressed it in the proper and legal manner. Thus, as I have said earlier, is a moot point at this time.
His statement, "Please let me know either way as soon as you can find the time.", lead me to believe that he too, had let his past inappropriate and illegal acts and the results of those actions, as equally moot. My reply to him concern such should have been more then enough to prove that point that we all had let that go. That is ALL I will say concerning anything prior to the issue here.
In the big picture, this is just a "rant". A "rant" of how I personally believe that he misrepresented my feelings and more importantly, the quality of my company's product. Something I take very seriously. I guess I just need to grow thicker skin like Doug.
I also agree that this thread is taking a tangent that is not related to the "rant" that opened. If it continues, either I or the administrators will be force to lock this thread or even worse... remove it. Not for what I posted, but because of the possible threats that you very realistically mentioned and the legal ramifications of such posts.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
|
posted June 03, 2003 12:55 PM
I'm beginning to wish that I never suggested to Dale that Redelk might be a source of a graphics file. I really like peace and serenity. To see this whole flap explode on my favorite websites is disturbing. It's actually very counterproductive to get all bent out of shape ya'll. Just creates tension in your day. Now look to the sky and repeat that Frank Costanza mantra: "Serenity Now!!!"
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
|
slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
|
posted June 03, 2003 03:21 PM
12rPilot: so YOU are the one.... ;P
ok seriously now...
McMurphy: did you actually READ the post at the top of this thread? or did you just make some wild ASSumptions as the 'substance' of your post would suggest?
your first two sentences were put to rest by the second sentence in the first post. try READING it...(that, by the way, is called common courtesy....common sense, call it what you will)
it is PLAINLY expressed, not only by the words, but by the context of the ENTIRE email mesasge that was quoted in the FIRST POST here, that Redelk held no grudge or hate for the past. Again, reading the ENTIRE post would have shown this to be evident. the only anger exists from the situation that is outlined here, rather plainly if i might say so. he got asked for a favour, DID a favour, then got knifed in the back.
you state, and AGREE that the original work was great. Why do you get offended when redelk expresses surprise and anger at being told it "needs some work", but not to his face? and in public?
as far as the doing business with, or not doing business with again, if you had read the first post (geez i sound like a broken record...) you would see that NEITHER party were against doing business with each other, or not, at least, by the wording of the email messages. That Redelk sent the data file, and also quoted the fees associated with the production, show that there was no animosity.
were there a 'grudge' like you say, then redelk would have simply said "f___ you" and been done with it. instead he says "yeh sure we can do it, or you can get it done locally if you need it faster or have a cheaper vendor."
and then, without any other correspondence, ie "no, i think i have a guy locally that can do it, could ya send me the original?"
inthe same reply no less:
and i QUOTE
All the same, I can understand if you do not feel comfortable in reordering the decals from me and would prefer to have a local vendor produce them for you. This is where it does get "personal". Though I will be the first one to get into your face over "web forum issues", I also still consider you to be not only a fellow 12R owner, but more importantly... a friend as well.
Thus, enclosed is an Adobe Illustrator EPS file (65847.eps - the number is actually the work order number used for your previous order) of the artwork used to produce your decals. I have saved it in the oldest version I could ( Adobe Illustrator v3.0/3.2), so it should be readable by just about any graphics program.
Again, I'd be more than happy to do the reorder for you If you have any questions or need the file in a different format, just let me know.
Sherman
end QUOTE
he sends the file, and even offers to send in different format if desired.
so i don't see the problem you see in your first paragraph.
Quote: (from you this time)
I know its trendy to blow shit outta proportion on forums to try and cause shit, but some people talking harassment on 3 ISP's and 2 websites ought to cool down considering its against all codes of conduct and creeping up on some laws rapidly. Its not funny when you cross the dickhead line and start talking harassment or threats, and start mentioning where people with wives and children live.
end Quote
where on earth is that? the mentioning wives & children crap you are accusing?
bah, throw un-substantiated accusations around, now THAT is riding the line.
every part of your post is full of smoke, mirrors, and bullshit. had you bothered to read the first post, or the thread, maybe you would see how "ignorant" your post here truly is. as you OBVIOUSLY registered only to make this post, it is clear that YOU are one of the ones crossing ISP's and forums to harass and belittle. what was that about codes of conduct? do they only apply to everyone BUT you?
of course, if you want to read my reply, you WILL have to read it here, as i WON'T go to another forum and register to make a post like this. because THAT is my code of internet conduct. heck i usually don't post on a new forum unless invited by someone to do so for a few months. you know why? because you cannot learn when your mouth is open. if you are only talking and spewing, you cannot be taking IN information. so i sit and watch and learn, keeps me from asking stupid NOOB questions that have been answered 128734875 times already, and i get a feel for who people are and how they react and what they think, believe etc.
prevents me from going off half-COCKed like you just did.
of course, i am probably talking to myself and the other few that are actually READING this thread, because i am thinking that you have already forgotten your login with no intentions of ever coming back.
but if i am wrong on that account, feel free to repudiate any of my observations of your etiquette and manners.
 
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 03, 2003 03:37 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 3 Jun 2003 16:44
12R pilot, you are quite right about the counter productiveness, but you have nothing to "wish" you hadn't done. Dale was well aware of where he got the decals and where the artwork was, long before your post. The only reason I duplicated your post here was to preface Dale's comment.
This thread was not put up for me to receive any kind of affirmation. Just being able to post my side of the situation and not have to worry about it being deleted is affirmation enough for me.
Another reason I started this thread is to give others that have a different viewpoint then I, a opportunity to post both their thoughts and questions of this issue I have made. The more passionate, yet seriousness of their posts gives me the opportunity to make my points perfectly clear.
The main point of this thread is the vast differences in his comments he e-mailed to me personally and what he is posting on his website, concerning the quality of work my company produces. My complaint is simply that what I was told and what I replied is different then what is being presented.
Combining this with inaccurate statements concerning the products provided to him and his failure to admit or correct these misrepresentations is the foundation of both my anger and disappointment.
I have no problem with any opinion or statement directed towards me personally. If they do not pertain to the topic of this thread, I view them as irrelevant and thus don't bother me. To be referred to as "childish" or anything as such isn't that far from what I perceive to be the truth, thus I have little defense against such statements. On the other hand, if one feels that I'm being anything less then truthful and complete in my presentation of the facts as I know them to be, then I would have issue with that as well.
I feel it is only fair that I provide anyone who wishes to make a statement or voice an opinion that is different then mine, should be given that opportunity without fear of being edited or deleted. After seeing the some of the initial responses, I believe that this opportunity is being taken advantage of. At least to a limited degree. Since it is obvious that the members of both forums are aware of this threads existence, I will leave it open for another day or two. That is unless the thread takes a tangent of just simply name calling or threats.
After those one or two days, I believe I will have allowed ample time for anyone that disagrees to make their point know. Having done that, I will lock this thread from any further posts and let it drop off the front pages and allow all of us, including myself, to move on to other more important topics.
Just as it should be.
Pastor Elk
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
|
posted June 03, 2003 03:47 PM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 3 Jun 2003 16:48
Pardon me but could I borrow a cup of surgar?
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted June 03, 2003 03:59 PM
white or brown?
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 03, 2003 04:08 PM
Sweet n' Low... please.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
|
posted June 03, 2003 04:17 PM
Nothing like a fresh batch of cookies to help calm a situation.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
|
zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
|
posted June 03, 2003 04:21 PM
Hmm board politics has always eluded me. Can't say thats a bad thing though.
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted June 03, 2003 06:23 PM
powerlessness,12 steps and practicing these principals in all our affairs?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted June 03, 2003 06:52 PM
Can I get a hug?
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 03, 2003 07:41 PM
aliveagain, you'd think I figured out "easy does it", by now, huh? Looks like a phone call to my "keeper" is in order. Something about "free rent..." and the "prayer". Maybe he (and my HP) can show me the difference.
Thanks.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
|
posted June 03, 2003 09:37 PM
Guys... I dont have time to get into this thread right now... I havent even had time to read it... Phinger... I editted out part of yer post....
People.... If you want to rant and argue that's fine... just keep it clean... no threats and family stays out of it... this is supposed to be nice clean fun so let's keep it that way.
thanks.. now I have to go have a shower as I am covered in mud.
nite.
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
phingersniffer
Expert Class
Posts: 293
|
posted June 03, 2003 10:04 PM
Edited By: phingersniffer on 3 Jun 2003 23:10
I though about that myself, seeing as what a sensitive man dale is.........
There was no threat. Just a dumb off the cuff.
I'm a peace lubbin mofo.
____________
The number one enemy of progress is question.
|
Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
|
posted June 04, 2003 05:59 AM
I wish not to enter a dark arena of tigers with no weapon or abilty to find the door.
But I have one question, Just one. Remember I'm new here.
One thing that I seen posted here on thread is that topics will not be deleted or locked like at ZX12R Forum.
But I just seen an edit take place by the Admin???
My summary is that this edit is worse than a thread being locked or deleted. It could change the entire outcome of what a member may see. I take it that Easy and family had a threat. And it was edited.
I can also say IMHO that with a thread being locked or deleted there is no chance to resolve said issue. Or swap spit and hold hands.
Which one does a Admin chose. It is there choice, It is the site they have invested time and money into. So I can understand being protective.
phingersniffer you should be ashamed of yourself, And Red Elk thanks for the welcome to the site here but you should be ashamed as well. Decals debates are not worth what the reaction phingersniffer offered to the ordeal has done to Easys and his familys peice of mind in their own home.
phingersniffer just blows it off as no big deal. And lays blame on Easy for being sensitive. When Easys sanctuary and family was threatened.
Road rage has started over less and folks hurt badly for no reason. But for uncontrolled anger.
We have the freedom to say and think as we please but some folks don't consider the consequence or aftershocks of ones own words. I have been giulty of this myself. So RedElk is the decal debate really worth it?
Thanks for the welcome here And the abilty to voice myself truthfully.
|
Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
|
posted June 04, 2003 06:12 AM
I'm watching out my window and a big cement truck 6 axle just pulled up in front of my house. My idiot neighbor ordered cement after its rained for the last 2 days stright and 24 days out the last month. I've got to get my pistol somebodys gonna get hurt. If that damm truck goes in my yard.  Now see how easy things get ouyt of hand.
I gotta go
|
phingersniffer
Expert Class
Posts: 293
|
posted June 04, 2003 07:00 AM
I don't beleive that I should be ashamed of myself. I've met easy many times in person and have opinions of him regardless of this forum and his stickers.
I really just wanted to point out that redelk had no legal reason to give the eps file to easy for free. It has ownership, and it is redelks. Redelk decided to do something nice for easy and easy still finds ways to be an ass about the whole thing. but what else would we all expect.
My post was edited and I have no problem with it. It was a slip in my judgement and I stated the neighbourhood where easy is. thats all.
Fish had every right to alter it.
____________
The number one enemy of progress is question.
|
Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
|
posted June 04, 2003 07:43 AM
Kind of ironic when title of thread says something about deleting post phingersniffer.
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted June 04, 2003 08:22 AM
Edited By: redelk on 4 Jun 2003 09:23
Outlaw, if your question is do I think my "rant" (my choice of words) is worth it degenerating in threats... my answer would be, no. It is not. That is why I stated, That is unless the thread takes a tangent of just simply name calling or threats.
Concerning deleted or locked threads, out of the approximately 7000+ threads started on this site, I would estimate that less than a total of 10 have been locked or deleted. That works out to be a little more than .001%. I would consider that to be pretty good "average". To the best of my knowledge, as this forum's moderator, I have deleted two, maybe three threads and locked one or two. I have also edited or deleted probably more than 20 to 30 individual posts. Of that number, probably over half of them were posts put up by Fish and done in fun. The same would apply to about half of the remaining "non-Fish" posts.
The balance of less than 10 posts were edited or deleted because of what I felt were violation of the guidelines of the site and it's forums or possibly of the federal/international laws pertaining to internet. In most of these cases, it was something simple like the posting of adult material or images inappropriate manner (i.e. a technical thread about clutch baskets).
In one case, I deleted a thread that made a joking reference to a member belonging to NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Lovers Association). I found this to be beyond the pale of even what is posted here in jest, due to the implied sexual activity with children. I caught some justifiable heat over that deletion, but the threads author and I came to an understanding by my stating that I probably over reacted, but he also understood my reasoning.
I can understand why you would view the editing of a post to be worse then locking a thread or deleting a post or thread. I share a similar feeling, but I and the administrators also find it necessary when that post contains threats (veiled or not) against other members, derogatory statements towards the family of our members or personal information that has no place on this forum. These are not acceptable under any circumstances and will be dealt with as promptly as we become aware of it.
One thing that I disagree with some of the other administrators and moderators of other sites is the cavalier editing or deleting of posts or threads solely because it passionately disagrees with the conduct or statements made by either the administrators or moderators of that site or forum. Yes, we have had more then one such thread disappear from this very forum. Two, I believe. Since I did not delete the threads, I do not know what happened. Suspicious? Sure it is. Are the administrators of this site doing a wholesale deletion of negative posts? Hardly.
Again, is my post worth all of this? Again, I say it is not. That is why I stated that this thread will be locked within the next 48 hours. Like I said earlier, I feel that this is plenty of time for those that feel DIFFERENTLY the I do, to post their views and for me to reply if it is warranted. Though I try to deny it exists, there is a passionate loyalty that is felt by a limited number of the members of each forum. My post is not here for them to spew venomous, unfounded shit at either Easy or Fish.
Homie don't play that. For that, I feel no shame, but stand proud that I can be part of a forum that not only allows such "rants" as mine, but more importantly, allows others the chance to question the validity of those very same rants.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
phingersniffer
Expert Class
Posts: 293
|
posted June 04, 2003 08:54 AM
That about sums it up.
____________
The number one enemy of progress is question.
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted June 04, 2003 10:22 AM
outlaw, u'r off base again. u'r searchin for something that just aint there. redelk put it pretty well, we only delete stuff that is out and out inappropriate or illegal. in the case of phingersniffers earlier post, he just mentioned the city easy lives in, which is prolyl availbale on easy's profile on his site anyway. i didnt even notice it when i read the post, but as phinger himself pointed out, easy is rather sensitive so in the interests of keeping things calm & in respect to easy it was deleted. it wasnt necessary (imho), but it was a prudent move. as to closing a (this) thread, its' onyl done to keep it from being dragged up agian and again over time, long after all involved have had their say.
u want threats & shit? go to labusas. u can get ur fill there. tho this site owe's its beginnings to labusas and we have a good repor [sp] with the site & its admin, we are a very different place, and thats why we formed to begin with.
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC