VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted May 26, 2003 05:33 PM
Finally, I learned something @ Maxton
Actually a learned a lot! #1, check all of the "Open" Records to see if they are Open! #2, that the Rescue Truck has no First Aid (Don't ask), not even a Bandaid! #3, the Best Shift point is between 8,500 and 9,500. My best start is around 3,500 and control wheel spin with the throttle and #4 the most important thing I learned was I am too big on the Bike as it is made to go the speeds I want to go!
Looking at the Bike I realized that the Gas Tank was in my way! Scott removes his tanks, but it is a little different on the 12. To get low enough and tight enough I am going to cut the upper part of the tank off so I can get a lot lower! I ran close to 184 at the first timer and 182 at the second timer using 100% throttle. I realized just raising a little to finally see where I was cost 2 mph that 134 feet (Or what ever the distance was). So I will be making the Tank , getting a different windshield and realize that once out of the way, I can run over 190. There are a few other things that will help, but I first had to learn this and get comfortable. It took 4 trips to learn this much!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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BA
Pro
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posted May 26, 2003 06:56 PM
you've GOT to elaborate about those shift points vince! I'm hangin here!
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 26, 2003 08:03 PM
Yeah, I want to know about the shift points. Everything I've read up until now said that the closer to redline you shift the faster you go on the ZX12. Is it different for a top-speed run?
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VincentHill
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posted May 26, 2003 08:52 PM
After my first visit there, Mr. Speed said you need to try a top gear run only just so you can see how important torque is vs HP. My peak torque is around 9,000 where it starts to fall off. When I was shifting around 11,000, I was going through the traps at about 10,6 to 10,800 in 6th, when I shifted at 9,000 I went through the traps at closer to 11,200.
I was very serious about seeing how high the air was over the Bike when Mr. Speed said and DOug Meyer said how high it was, So on a few runs, I stood up almost vertical to see the pressure change and found that I could run 180 over 1 foot high off of the gas tank! See for yourself
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 26, 2003 08:55 PM
quote:
I was very serious about seeing how high the air was over the Bike when Mr. Speed said and DOug Meyer said how high it was, So on a few runs, I stood up almost vertical to see the pressure change and found that I could run 180 over 1 foot high off of the gas tank! See for yourself
That's very interesting Vincent.
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VincentHill
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posted May 26, 2003 08:59 PM
Try Photo #112 to see just how High I was up in the "Air" http://www.summitphotonc.com/page4.html
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 26, 2003 09:09 PM
Man, Vincent. You weren't kidding, were you? I thought you were just sticking your helmet up in the air...not your whole body. Keep it up. I learn something from your experimentation every time!
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ZHooligan
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posted May 26, 2003 09:19 PM
While I have not ran Maxton. I have made untold numbers of all out top speed runs. Maxton is a mile long drag race, where as I have made numerous runs of 3 to 5 miles so speed is all I looked for. I have found it interesting and effective to put my butt on the tail to raise my self up. I have found a happy point where the wind and turbulence seems to calm down and things seem to smooth out. And by moving back on the bike putting my butt on the tail it makes the tuck easier.
And Vincent I have seen a lot said about shift points and taking it to the rev limiter etc. I have personally found my best speed comes with shifting in the 9500 to 10000 rpm zone. So your thoughts are close to mine.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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wannabe
Pro
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posted May 26, 2003 09:44 PM
Sorry to bastardize your thread, Vincent, but I just had a thought. So, does this mean that the shift points for best speed and best ET different? Does this mean that for best ET, you shift near redline while for best speed, you shift a peak torque (i.e. 9000-10000 rpm)???
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MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted May 27, 2003 04:46 AM
I would think if you changed your gearing that would help you out in reaching redline, like you could go up 1 tooth. and that would let you shift around redline and still end up at redline. but then again I'm thinking with my Dragracing mind.....
Mad Mike.
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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VincentHill
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posted May 27, 2003 06:31 AM
Wannabe, you are "NOT" Taking anything away, you are adding because I also have all of these questions. I really think speed is low shift and Quick is High shift points!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
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posted May 27, 2003 07:18 AM
That's a hell of a pic Vinnie, how fast are you going there? 180? You crazy old man! LOL
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Zhooligan
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posted May 27, 2003 07:53 AM
That picture is part of an imformircial Vincent is involved with. It is the after photo when using the superflex machine!  "My name in Vincent and after 3 uses of the superflex machine I have gained the needed flexibility to bend over and grab my motorcycle handle bars!!!"  " after three more uses I will be able to bend my knees!!!!"
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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VincentHill
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posted May 27, 2003 08:31 AM
Otis, right on the money! Zhoo you need attention! I wonder what it looked like when I had my arms locked straight??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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bigju
Expert Class
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posted May 27, 2003 08:48 AM
Vince, basicly what I can gather from what your saying is these bikes could go alot faster with better aerodynamics. Because I would have to believe your bike has the wrench time in it to exceed 184 mph. Very intresting
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted May 27, 2003 09:33 AM
I seriously doubt the 9000 rpm shift is better than 11500, even though you may have seen your best run using that method there must have been other factors that yielded the better results, such as aero or body position. I've played with shiftpoints too, and found that the short shifting doesn't work as well as winding it out. It's the same principal as drag racing, just a longer run. Also I don't think that full stand position shown in the photo above would be ideal, it's too high. The main reason you "lift" off the seat slightly is to create a more aerodynamic curve and smooth the airflow over your body, the photo shown is way too high for that and looks like more of an obstruction.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted May 27, 2003 09:43 AM
Yea....shortshifting costs me nearly 3tenths and 5mph at the dragstrip.
I thought it would be beneficial too (on motor anyway)....but the timeslips didnt lie :/
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VincentHill
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posted May 27, 2003 10:26 AM
Bergie, Correct about waay to high, but I had been higher to see just how much air there is up there! Helmet on the tank, up curve in the back with the rear coming down would be perfect! Actually, I was going 176 to 178and shifted at 9,500, 181 mph. 9,000 183, 8,500 182. What I noticed was the fact that the engine had higher revs all 3 times at the very low shift points!
BigJu, You hit the nail right on the head. I am too big for the bike the way it is and I am fixing that! I am not too big on a Busa! People like Dan's sons that you can see the imprint of the fuel cap on the back of their leathers when they are on the tank, can go 200 on motor. I am going to drop me almost 6 inches lower on the bike (Than I am flat on the tank) and use my Wide seat plus a few other things and feel I will reach 190 in September. There was a person that had a very serious 12 with a full Body kit running around 194 his first time at Maxton from Michigan
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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kcadby
Pro
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posted May 27, 2003 11:09 AM
Very coool picture Vincent...
I too believe that...IF the bike is geared "right for Maxton" you would go faster (or at least AS FAST) if you shifted at higher rpms...
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VincentHill
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posted May 27, 2003 11:48 AM
Kevin, I was told by Mr. Motorcycle I would go the fastest if I shifted at the "Torque" Peak vs the HP Peak. Like You and Bergie, No way and I know it does not work at a Drag Strip which is why I put off trying it until this weekend. Geared 18 / 47, i could not break 180 using 11,000 / 11,500 and 10,500 rpm Shift points. 179 was the fasest. then went to the 46 tooth and lost 2 / 3 Mph to 176 & 177. When you are desparate, you will try anything. I ran all low to mid 180 using 8,500 to 9,500 shift points. I used between 3,200 and 3,500 to start and (Like I said) controlled wheel spin with the throttle and never Bogged. I will post pictures when I finish with the short tank and different shield and side panels!
Looking at the picture, the only thing different between me and the Jockey (Other than Size) in I am going 140 MpH Faster. Surface just a bumpy
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
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posted May 27, 2003 12:45 PM
On the stock bike in March:
Also I read on Dragbike.com that Guy finally broke 200mph, with a 210mph pass and 3 new records. Congratulations to him on that. I'd be more impressed if he did it without nitrous! Seems like Turbos and Nitrous are getting people over the 200 mark easily... In fact to me I don't see how you could miss it on a Hayabusa or ZX12R with nitrous or turbo, doing it naturally aspirated now that's an achivement.
I'm going back this year to absolutely destroy anything and everything with a /G label on it and no-bodywork! I expect to see 190mph without bodywork!
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VincentHill
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posted May 27, 2003 01:38 PM
You should have seen his Body work (on his bike also ). I saw your picture and know that you cannot get any lower in front! That is why I an planning to fix that on my bike so that i can get at least as low with my thicker Body!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 28, 2003 08:14 AM
The problem is when you get really low the human eyes can only look up so high, I'm at a vision limitation now I can't see out of the top of my head 
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted May 28, 2003 08:44 AM
I remember kevin tellin me once that when he goes down the dragstrip..he doesnt even look forward...just down...keeping the bike pointed straight.
I dont have the kinda cojones to do that
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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VincentHill
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posted May 28, 2003 12:11 PM
When I get finished, there will be no dark area at the bottom of my shield and I may lower the gauges somehow. There is at least 4 inches of uselessness in my way.and I will be fixing that also!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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