BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted May 22, 2003 07:03 PM
 Edited By: BA on 9 Jun 2003 18:33
***UPDATE:***I Fooked something up in my Tranny!!
So, I just wrapped up replacing my shift forks in the tranny. It REALLY isn't that hard at all. If you can do your own clutch, you can do the shift forks.
That being said,......I apparently 'moved' something or didn't put all of the shifting mechanism back in quite right!
Check this out:
-Bike starts fine, no odd noises, clunking or anything like that.
-Bike WILL NOT go into any gear at all. Clutch, no clutch, yanking shifter, nothing works.
-Nuetral light is NOT on, but it does work.
-Rear wheel CAN be rotated if you use two hands or have real good leverage with one hand. It feels TIGHT.
-Chain is not tight.
-Rear brake is not binding wheel movement.
-Rim spins great on axle when chain is not on sprocket.
Anyone seen something like this?
Have I moved a gear, or not lined something up correctly during re-install?
Tomorrow I plan to take the clutch cover off to look at the pieces in there, like that detent roller thing, but I feel like the problem is inside the tranny area and I'm going to have to take the pipe off and the oil pan.
Any thoughts would be helpful!!
  
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted May 22, 2003 07:57 PM
quote:
So, I just wrapped up replacing my shift forks in the tranny. It REALLY isn't that hard at all. If you do you own clutch, you can do the shift forks.
Well, BA, you are making me wonder just how simple it really is! 
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted May 23, 2003 06:07 AM
Edited By: BA on 23 May 2003 07:46
Yeah, it's not a very convincing story is it??
You have to remember that I'm an idiot and a magnet for 'stupid-shit'!
Anyone else would have been fine! I promise ya!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 23, 2003 06:47 AM
BA, Are you talking about the Shift Shaft that the Shift lever attaches on ? I thing of Shifting Forks as the Parts inside the case that slide the gears around. I would make sure that you have the neutral Pawl in the correct place and all springs are attached
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted May 23, 2003 10:16 AM
I *did* actually put in the new BDE shift shafts(very sweet, you gotta check'em out), and also replaced the shift forks that are part of that assembly. That long shaft that the the actual foot-shifting lever attaches to was also taken out, but just put back in when all was said and done.
I'm wondering if I didn't get it in correctly. I feel like I got the shift forks and their little tabs all in place correctly.
I believe we are on the same page, so to speak.
I'm not exactly sure which springs you are referring to but when I disassemble again this afternoon I'll check it out. I am presuming you mean on the clutch side of things, under the cover, because I don't remember (nor have any 'spare parts' laying around) any other spring-like parts.
I'm not sure what the "nuetral pawl" is either! But, that could be part of the problem as well since I realize the specialty of the 12R "nuetral finder" POS. 
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 23, 2003 10:28 AM
OK, now that I know you took the Real Shifting Forks out, did you turn the transmission and shift through all of the gears? Forks are NOT A simple Job. Kawasaki Uses Ball bearings to make Neutral easy to find. I will take a look at the Book to see if it does have a neutral Pawl, (A little detent lever that lets the shift drum know when it is in neutral. Is is always on the outside of the main cases and has a small spring attached
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 24, 2003 05:00 PM
OK Son...drop the wrench...NOW! and...slowly back aWAY from the MotorCycle!!!
#1 does the shifter move?
#2 If so...do things "click" like they used to?
Because you say the wheel turns hard...it sounds to me that...you either don't have one of the shift-fork pins in the groove of the shift drum...or...you don't have the fork in the groove/slot of it's gear...
Sugestion...check the shifting BEFORE you put the clutch cover and-or oil pan back on this time 
Because of the 2nd-gear lock-out (won't go into second gear when the wheel isn't turning)...you will have to spin the rear wheel before it will shift into 2nd...once it's in 2nd you can shift all the way to 6th by just moving the wheel back and forth for the dogs on the gears to line up...
I spin the wheel pretty hard (doesn't matter which direction) then...shift it into 2nd just before the wheel stops...if you wait till the wheel slows down...it won't slam into gear so bad...
You can shift through the gears with the clutch basket out so...don't worry about putting it all back together until after you check the shifting!!!
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted May 24, 2003 05:03 PM
quote:
OK Son...drop the wrench...NOW! and...slowly back aWAY from the MotorCycle!!!
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 09, 2003 05:38 PM
Ok, so I had dicked around with the tranny and somehow got it "into gear",.....don't know which gear, but it was A gear. I was NOT in gear previously.
So, I thought it was good to go, I buttoned somethings up and fired it up only to find out that YES, I was in gear, and the clutch worked, but I COULDN"T SHIFT GEARS!  I soo suck.
So, I take Kevin's advice and go to looking at the special little slots for the shift forks and I have to say, I'm looking up in there and I don't see how the shift forks could be ANYTHING BUT in their right place! The reason I say that is that all of the adjacent gearing has big notches/castle-ated things on them for engaging with another gear!
So, my neutral light still has never come on either.
Do I have my shift drum "out of sync"?? Is that possible? And the little shift-rod end inside the clutch cover, Could I have put that together wrong? It looks pretty simple.
I'm just looking for clues about this shifting, and the neutral light.
Offer advice if you've got it!!! I sure need it!
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 09, 2003 06:04 PM
I don't know about the 12 but I remember putting the shifting forks in upside down on another bike,didn't work.Did you remember to install the dowel pin in the shifting drum?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 09, 2003 07:31 PM
Upside down?!?! Now that's a new one!
I just learned a little more when disassembling things again.........
In short, my "Shift Shaft Assembly" which is right inside the clutch cover, lower left area, was **HITTING** my damn oil transfer tube!! WTF?!!?
My damn oil tube has a nice little bend in it now, I'll need a new one.
Anyway, it wasn't exactly hitting it "hard", but just enough to NOT ALLOW the shift mechanism to move fully.
SO, why were they touching?
I only have one clue and question here.
when I was originally slipping the 'single' shift fork into place, I needed to rotate the shift drum a little bit. (seemed like no big deal. the other 2 forks were in already in.) BUT, when I did that, the shift drum barely 'popped' out of it's support hole. I caught it before it moved much at all and I just slipped it back into place.
Now I'm wondering, given the contact mentioned above, how can I tell if that shift drum is properly seated??? It isn't exactly "flush" with the engine case and so far no amount of playing seems to make it any more flush. There's about a 1/32nd or 1/64th of a lip there. Enough to catch a screwdriver when running from the case up to the shift drum race/bearing/edge.
Similarly, that little little bit means that the brace thing that goes into the slots of the two shift shaft's isn't exactly "flush" with the case either. It sticks out just that little bit because of the shift drum being out a little bit.
(the brace thing 'overlaps' the end of the shift drum, seeming to help hold it firmly too)
Does any of this sound right? Make sense?
I'd put it back together to check for clearance but I've bent that oil tube and need another.....
Thoughts? (At least I know what's going on now,.....sort of!)
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted June 10, 2003 11:15 AM
Been another hard day here...I'll try to look a a set of cases here later if I can
I'd turn it upside-down LOL
(i'm kidding---of coarse)...
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 10, 2003 04:55 PM
Hell, I sure wish I knew what was "out of place", but I'll be damned if it doesn't NOW look pretty ok after another disassembly and partial reassembly!
Here's some pics:
My finger is pointing to the "Shift Shaft linkage", which was contacting my oil transfer tube. I put the bent tube back into place for reference.
I have no idea WHY it was contacting it, but upon another DISASSEMBLY and reassembly, NOW IT DOESN'T! So, I'm *thinking*, that I'll be ok this time! (crossing fingers)
I think PIC #2 is me pointing to that "locking plate" for the shift fork tubes. I swear it's a little closer to the casing this time around.
PIC #3 is just a shot, maybe not a good one, of where the contact was happening on the copper oiling tube, being hit by that little nubby button bastard on the linkage, from PIC #1. Look closely, and try to disregard the light reflecting off the tube.
I am so jones'n to ride! and to hit the track!!!! Copper tube replacement is now due in on Friday........
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted June 10, 2003 06:47 PM
manyou can change shift forks with cases in bike? lucky dog...
hehe i have to split cases to get to them......
  
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted June 11, 2003 09:48 AM
Well??? he hasn't got it DONE yet!?!?!?
Didn't have a chance to look yet BA...
Not looking good for today (till later) either...
NOT too many things (without looking) to keep that mech. from going in right though!!!
Nuther question/statement...will the tranny shift by just turning the shift drum (with that mech. pulled out of the way)...
Just trying to find out if your problem is ONLY with that mech. or if you still have an issue inside the tranny/forks...
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 11, 2003 11:43 AM
I can turn the drum by hand without problems.
Also can do it by the linkage, manually now......right there at the case.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted June 11, 2003 12:39 PM
You should be able to shift the trans through the gears by turning the drum by hand (careful that plate is sharp) while turning the output shaft. You will need to spin it pretty fast to accomplish the 1-2 shift to get the balls out of the groove, but the other ones you can just turn it enough to get the dogs to line up. Kawasaki Engine Building RULE OF THUMB: NOTHING ever "almost" lines up or needs a little "help" to go together. It either fits or it's wrong.
Doug
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 11, 2003 07:03 PM
Ya know what Kev, I *AGREE* with you that there really isn't much that can keep it from going together correctly!
Leave it to my luck to find the way though! Arrrghhh!
A local Kaw. mechanic wondered if this little bushing-thing on that shift shaft was fully seated. I couldn't tell ya for sure either way.
She does click all the way through the gears now, giving the rear wheel just that little bit of a turn for gears 2-6.
I still feel confident that the forks are/were in ok and that my troubles were all right there in that linkage under the clutch cover like the pics above.
Doug, thanks for your input too, always good to hear from folks who know what they're doing, which when it comes to bike engines I'm like a black hole of knowledge. Lots goes in and nothing comes out. Don't stand too close to me!
It's still worth the hassle having saved the $700 that a certain shop was going to charge me!
Can't wait to get on the track and practice some before INDY Prostar event!
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