Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 01, 2013 06:55 PM
 Edited By: Gunner on 2 Sep 2013 05:25
Double post
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
  
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 02, 2013 02:40 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Sep 2013 22:51
quote:
Congrats to all involved. 13 years later the ol' 12R still has it.
I'm a little curious ...
What class was this bike entered in? Gas or Fuel? Modified or Altered?
A.
APS 1650 bike, Fuel class...but all motor, MRX-02 Fuel. Same as I am running in my 1534.
Side Note: Not arguing with Gunner on the beauty and engineering of some of the exhausts out there. But, I do say that the Brock product, made by Hindle, is of very good quality and will make power. I have new system here, non-sidewinder, for my 1287. It is a solid piece, and I will post dyno numbers when that day comes.
Shane
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted September 03, 2013 06:55 AM
Some of the difficulty in determining which exhaust is the "best" is what defines "best"
Area under the curve?
Peak HP?
Strongest Midrange?
And then we haven't taken into account the fact that no 2 bikes are alike. Isolating all variables in an "exhaust shootout" would be tough. Let alone exhaust system requirements change when you are comparing a stock motor compared to big motor. Or one with a big shot of nitrous.
I have found Muzzy systems to be like AK47s: Cheap, Crude but effective (for the zx12). I dislike the add'l work it takes to tune out the flat spots down low, but for my budget at the time it fit the bill.
Smoothest curve and maybe even highest peak HP I'm sure there are other brands that trump the muzzys for the 12R. But if you want cheap power (used ones can be had for a song) they ain't that bad.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 03, 2013 10:58 AM
Edited By: Gunner on 3 Sep 2013 19:02
quote:
quote:
Congrats to all involved. 13 years later the ol' 12R still has it.
I'm a little curious ...
What class was this bike entered in? Gas or Fuel? Modified or Altered?
A.
APS 1650 bike, Fuel class...but all motor, MRX-02 Fuel. Same as I am running in my 1534.
Side Note: Not arguing with Gunner on the beauty and engineering of some of the exhausts out there. But, I do say that the Brock product, made by Hindle, is of very good quality and will make power. I have new system here, non-sidewinder, for my 1287. It is a solid piece, and I will post dyno numbers when that day comes.
Shane
How you propose to do this? Unless you have an Arata pipe to slap on there and compare back to back your test won't prove anything since it's on a 1287 motor. No one knows what Sal's 1287 makes on the Dyno since Sal never dyno's anything. Do me a favor and post up some pictures of that pipe. I would like to see one inside around the collector area. It's been years since I seen a Hindle.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
|
posted September 03, 2013 01:38 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 3 Sep 2013 23:09
quote:
How you propose to do this? Unless you have an Arata pipe to slap on there and compare back to back your test won't prove anything since it's on a 1287 motor. No one knows what Sal's 1287 makes on the Dyno since Sal never dyno's anything. Do me a favor and post up some pictures of that pipe. I would like to see one inside around the collector area. It's been years since I seen a Hindle.
I'm not trying to prove anything other than the Brock pipe will make good power, is light, and of good quality. As I say, I will post results when I get mine on the dyno...but the Hindle made pipes have a great reputation in the real world, for performance, as you know. And I think you also know the quality is much better than, say, a Muzzy.
And, as you have done repeatedly, I refer to the results. A Hindle-made pipe has trumped an Arata by 10 mph. There are 100 other factors, but I am playing by your rules. Who's the fastest? Brock's is the fastest, as made by Hindle.
I love the Ti stuff, and I have 3 Brock's Ti pipes in the garage right now. Also have a couple of Hindle-made stainless pipes, and Muzzy stainless and Ti. They all have their spot, in the grand scheme.
Shane
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 12:28 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 4 Sep 2013 20:54
Shane you are insane even making that comparison that I won't even dignify with a reply if you think you accomplished something by comparing that 1427 to a pissie 1287 that runs on gas verses you guys running on some hopped up fuel is a comparison then you are just insane. As far as the pipes go you use whatever you want I don't really care. If you like the taste of licking Brock's nut sack then by all means don't let me stop you. Personally I have nothing against Brock nor do I have reason to.
I have an idea... you are putting your 1287 back together as I've seen recently right? If you want to prove that you're Brock Hindle is the best in the world how about you take your 1287 to the mile and compare apples to apples.. You Brock equipped 1287 against Sal's 1287 record and run the thing in the same class as Sal ran Dales 1287 in .. That's where you're going to prove how superior you Hindle pipe is.. That's a very fair deal but my but I'm willing to bet you'll have hundreds of reasons why you can't do that. The 1427 running on power adder type fuel owns the fuel class aspirated record without contention for Kawasaki no one is denying that. But it's you that keeps stating how superior your Hindle pipe is so prove it. Run your 1287 motor against the reord that Sal ran and really prove something, but you have to run it in the same class meaning no NOS hidden and not juiced up fuel. Really get in there and show the whole world how superior your Hindle really is. Instead of comparing a lopsided deal like you are doing now.
And again I'm not saying anything bad about CMG bike or it's records it's a nice piece. He done wonders getting the frontal area reduced and keeping the air our of the radiator area of the bike. And playing by the rules as you said.. That would mean running in the same class. So you aren't playing by the same rules are you? Why not compare yourself to Ali's ninja 250 because that's what you're doing now. The record wouldn't be any less impressive if you were running a bottle or Nitro in the tank. It proved the 12R in the right hands can get it done. But comparing that thing against motors that are quite a bit smaller and running spec fuel in the tank isn't really an even comparison now is it? Dynoing a motor that no one has ever dynoed before to compare against isn't really proving anything since there's no data to compare. If it makes 190hp on your Hindle who's to say it wouldn't make 200 with the Arata pipe? no one since there's no data to compare.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 04, 2013 01:42 PM
quote:
Shane you are insane even making that comparison that I won't even dignify with a reply if you think you accomplished something by comparing that 1427 to a pissie 1287 that runs on gas verses you guys running on some hopped up fuel is a comparison then you are just insane. As far as the pipes go you use whatever you want I don't really care. If you like the taste of licking Brock's nut sack then by all means don't let me stop you. Personally I have nothing against Brock nor do I have reason to.
I have an idea... you are putting your 1287 back together as I've seen recently right? If you want to prove that you're Brock Hindle is the best in the world how about you take your 1287 to the mile and compare apples to apples.. You Brock equipped 1287 against Sal's 1287 record and run the thing in the same class as Sal ran Dales 1287 in .. That's where you're going to prove how superior you Hindle pipe is.. That's a very fair deal but my but I'm willing to bet you'll have hundreds of reasons why you can't do that. The 1427 running on power adder type fuel owns the fuel class aspirated record without contention for Kawasaki no one is denying that. But it's you that keeps stating how superior your Hindle pipe is so prove it. Run your 1287 motor against the reord that Sal ran and really prove something, but you have to run it in the same class meaning no NOS hidden and not juiced up fuel. Really get in there and show the whole world how superior your Hindle really is. Instead of comparing a lopsided deal like you are doing now.
And again I'm not saying anything bad about CMG bike or it's records it's a nice piece. He done wonders getting the frontal area reduced and keeping the air our of the radiator area of the bike. And playing by the rules as you said.. That would mean running in the same class. So you aren't playing by the same rules are you? Why not compare yourself to Ali's ninja 250 because that's what you're doing now. The record wouldn't be any less impressive if you were running a bottle or Nitro in the tank. It proved the 12R in the right hands can get it done. But comparing that thing against motors that are quite a bit smaller and running spec fuel in the tank isn't really an even comparison now is it? Dynoing a motor that no one has ever dynoed before to compare against isn't really proving anything since there's no data to compare. If it makes 190hp on your Hindle who's to say it wouldn't make 200 with the Arata pipe? no one since there's no data to compare.
this is what we did with the left over "hopped up" fuel, Thanks to Henry and Ralphie I had a mixed jug of VP that got me most of the way home. most epic wa$te ever, can still kinda smell the fumes 
roughly what I look like going down the track on CMGs monster
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted September 04, 2013 02:31 PM
well a mile comparo with sals and shanes 1287 to compare exhaust is pointless. i think sal did shanes motor but he hand ports i bet no flowbench and i am thinking the engine had a different thought in mind for each bike. that would not be apples to apples for a hindle arata throwdown. what would be sad is if shippys and my muzzy ti would get with in 3hp on a dyno comparo.
on a side note a sal ported head and cams at his numbers made 5 more hp than my bike.
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 04:35 PM
quote:
well a mile comparo with sals and shanes 1287 to compare exhaust is pointless. i think sal did shanes motor but he hand ports i bet no flowbench and i am thinking the engine had a different thought in mind for each bike. that would not be apples to apples for a hindle arata throwdown. what would be sad is if shippys and my muzzy ti would get with in 3hp on a dyno comparo.
on a side note a sal ported head and cams at his numbers made 5 more hp than my bike.
So do you think comparing a 1287 against a 1427 apples to apples? At least comparing the two 1287's is a lot closer to even. The 1427 should be faster than the 1287 motor. So claiming Brock's pipe made it faster is reaching. I've said FROM THE START that I'm not comparing sidewinder pipes since we were talking street bikes. I don't care how they accomplished what they did. I'm glad it's a kawasaki that done it. There's no love lost between myself and the Warp12 group which is very clear. I want to see it run faster yet because I can look past all the BS and give the bike credit for what it has done. Keep in mind Arata doesn't make a sidewinder pipe. If you want a sidwinder it's Brocks or Muzzy unless Murry makes one I don't know. We are talking steet bikes not trailer queen race bikes so dragging that 1427 into the thread has done nothing but fucked up this man's thread. It's a 1427 it's supposed to go faster. But it's not the pipe that done it in a combination like that. The accomplishment is huge for a 12R and something that I have always felt possible if the right bike was in the right hands. But comparing that 1427 to a 1287 claiming the header made the difference is crazy. No one knows what it would run with a different pipe and better yet no one cares.
However for a street bike that sidewinder pipe won't cut it and we were talking street bikes in this thread.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 04, 2013 04:56 PM
Ive had the step tube Hindle and BDE SW, they are basically the same thing only shaped differently, the sw has a longer 2 section, the rest of the dimensions are the same. sticking a megaphone on it or an alien head wont make much difference power wise. its a good pipe, i got my first 8 sec runs with a Hindle on my street setup
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted September 04, 2013 05:03 PM
easy easy gunner i must of forgot to say 1287
and as for dragging the 1427cc bike into this post and messing it up? really? read this dam
post and rethink that statment.
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 06:35 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 5 Sep 2013 02:37
Jesus Christ will you guys just do your thing and I'll do mine. That 1427 would have ran the same thing with a Muzzy sidewinder on it I feel quite certain. The very thing that makes a sidewinder so great for a drag bike makes it far from the best choice for a street bike. What's so hard to accept about that? At the end of the day they have what they think is best and I have what I think is best. The 1427 cc 12R finally showed the world that a ZX12R is a real threat in the right hands. Whether they did it using NOS under the tail or by some oxygenated trick fuel means very little to me since the class they ran in allows that. I'm happy it's a Kawasaki and not another Busa. Though the bike that set the record isn't anything I care about ever owning I can still appreciate what it is. It's a thing of beauty looking from the front at it. I don't care what pipe it has in fact if I were to be building an LSR bike it would also use a sidwinder meaning it would most likely be a Brocks since I'll never give give Muzzy a dime. But for a street bike or road racing bike I think we ca all agree a sidewinder isn't the best choice, I can also accept the fact that the group involved with that bike will never agree with anything I say so what's new.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
Hibs
Expert Class
Posts: 127
|
posted September 04, 2013 07:05 PM
wow you're a real class act gunner. it's no wonder other message boards have banned you and don't want you around. these guys set a new world record, and all you can do is dog their achievements by talking about what type of fuel they ran, how it wasn't a street bike, wasn't a street exhaust, and now even implying they were using nitrous?!? you're a fucking asshole, plain and simple. Your head is so god damn big and you think you're the smartest guy on the internet, yet you haven't done shit with a ZX12 that's worth shaking a stick at. oh wow you built some drag bike fifty years ago, who gives a fuck? this is zx12r zone right? You boast and brag for three god damn pages about how arata is the best pipe in the world, that the fastest kawasaki in the world wears it, and then when their record is straight fucked in the ass (by over 10mph!!!) all you can do is come up with a bunch of lame ass excuses! You're nothing but a worthless old hillbilly fuck, who can't ride a bike himself to push any evelopes unlike others in this thread (yea, even that guy who you called the clown of this forum, who now has his name in the record books), and you can't build anything that would compete at their level. Coulda shoulda woulda fucking nothing. If ACE could have done it, they would have, but they didn't, and neither did you, so shut the fuck up.
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 07:23 PM
Talk about a class act Hibbler that foul language filled rant spells class doesn't it ? I don't care what the those guys are doing and I've NEVER had anyone ride any of my bikes. If you want to start down that path the 1427 was rode by someone that doesn't own it. Perhaps you are confused. If I were competing in LSR against those guys I may care what they done but I'm not and I don't. I don't think the header pipe it wore would make much difference in the outcome. If they didn't want people suspecting they were using NOS or hopped up fuel they wouldn't have entered the bike in that class. Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck must be a duck. But either way doesn't matter to me. You think you might clean up that nasty mouth?
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
Hibs
Expert Class
Posts: 127
|
posted September 04, 2013 07:46 PM
Wait.... If you were competing in LSR pipe doesn't matter, but for three pages prior all we heard was you spouting off about how the fastest LSR bike in the world chose an ARATA pipe on purpose because it was the best pipe ever. So... which story is it? You so fucking arragant you can't just say, hey, good for them, and leave it at that? Wow you're something else.
Perhaps you are confused. Perhaps if you were competing in anything, you would have not backed out when I called your old fat ass out in a street 12R vs street 12R. My hindle pipe vs your Arata pipe.
Have fun sitting behind the keyboard stroking your dick, not competing in anything, puttering around the block on your street only bike because your head is so big you don't have the edge for anything else.
And it's Hibler, one B. Look me up anytime if you want to answer your callout from years ago.
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 10:02 PM
You are one dumb SOB! Noting but garbage comes across your lips with the exception of your boyfriends love gun. If you could read, and if you could understand what you read you wouldn't be here looking like a dumb ass today. When the person that started this thread ask about header pipes I recommended the best pipe made for the 12R . Before the ink was dry Muzzy junk was brought into the equation. Since the 12R Sal rode had a Muzzy pipe on it when it was purchased by Dale and they replaced it by an Arata there must have been good reason for doing so. I posted the pictures of Dale's bike wearing the thing because I didn't feel like debating the facts for days about what it actually ran. That bike isn't a 1427 and it's not as fast as CMG's record holder. I stated from the start of this that I couldn't say much about sidewinder pipes and I was pretty sure Brock made a good one but that's not a street pipe. Now to move onto the class they picked to run the 1427 in. If they didn't want to be confronted about NOS or juiced up fuel they should have entered it in a gas class and nothing would be assumed. But they didn't enter it there because that would mean if they captured a record and the fuel wasn't spec fuel they wasted their time. So for your dumb ass I'll break this down to you. If you don't want to be be assumed to be a HOMO stop cross dressing and hanging out in Gay bars! Same goes for that bike. If they didn't want people to raise their eyebrow about it having a bottle or juiced up fuel they shouldn't enter it in a fuel class. I've said this now at least a hundred times but for your foul mouth I'll repeat it again. What they done is a huge leap into record books. They ran whatever they ran to achieve it and everything they done was is legal according to the rules of that class. Even if they had a 250 Hp bottle on it the record would stand. They DID NOT CHEAT OR BREAK ANY RULES! Now I cap locked that so you won't continue misunderstanding what I'm saying. There have been plenty of people running huge shots of NOS and never broke 200. That bike is a very nice piece and I'm not now nor have I ever said differently. They done a good job with it. But I doubt who's pipe it had made a lot of difference since building a pipe that works WFO isn't the toughest thing to do. No one cares how that bike works in the corners since it's clearly never going to be ridden there. Back to my point it had a pipe that best fit it's needs. Again for the last time I like the bike and I can appreciate the hard work put into building it. But comparing that to a 1287 isn't exactly what anyone would consider an evenly matched race. I'm not pissing on what the 1427 done since it just made all 12R's worth more. Amazing how I said all that without stooping to your low level of spewing all that vulgar language.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 04, 2013 10:32 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 5 Sep 2013 06:36
Here you go Hibs this is my own post from PAGE 1 of this thread. I was clear on what I was saying. Now take that and twist it into something it's not. You have tried to twist every post I've made since the start of this thread but here it is from PAGE 1. I'm sorry you don't own the best pipe out there for a street going 12R. But that don't mean it's OK to twist other people's post to start a shit slinging contest. Unlike you I can put away my differences to acknowledge accomplishments of others even the Warp12 gang. But if I'm driving down the street and see you dressed in drag walking out the door of a well known gay bar don't be surprised if you are suspected as being a faggot from that day forward simple as that. You aren't about to tell me or anyone else that the 1427 was placed in a fuel class by accident. Coming in here with all that trashy talk claiming I'm discrediting their accomplishments because I have ask why was the bike entered into that class is a joke. Shane isn't stupid when it comes to entering bikes into the right class. There was a reason it was entered there. Asking what that reason was isn't discrediting their accomplishment in the least it's a question that anyone with a brain would ask. Beating the drums because a bike with a motor 150cc larger than a lesser motor isn't really saying a lot is it? It's a much larger motor and should run stronger. I think that quite possibly that bike was perfectly built. I don't know if it's all from Shane's input or CMG's own mind but whomever was responsible for the chassis set up understands LSR possibly better than most everyone else.
From the start of this thread you have tried to twist my post. I clarified this from the start and yet here we are with you still doing your best to stir shit..
quote:
Brocks sidewinder -------------------------------------> IS NOT A HINDLE!!!!!!!!!!! None of the newest brock stuff is from what I been told but I may be wrong.... We weren't talking sidewinder pipes here son. We are talking street pipes and you changed gears in the middle. This guy isn't asking about a drag pipe. Hindle pipes are cheap pipes. I didn't say junk I said they sell a lot because they are inexpensive which is the truth.. Do you not think Sal could have put any pipe he wanted on Dale's 12R? You ever held an Arata in your hands and looked at it close? I build 4 and 5 grand sets of headers for race cars in my shop all the time. One of a kind custom stuff for drag cars. Tubes going everywhere wrapping in. over, thru, around just about everything in the engine bay. I know a thing or two about headers. I've owned Arata, AK, Ti Force, just about all the top headers made for bikes as well.. NOTHING comes close to an Arata for quality and how it makes power. NO flat spots anywhere, no stumbles anywhere, perfect idle, smooth transitions all the way up and they make big power.. The insides are as smooth as the outside. There's no burs on the inside, no sugering on the welds, no steps or mismatched transitions from tube to tube... They are perfection from tip to tip... You can lick the damn thing inside out and never scratch your tongue if you had a mind to. They are the best header pipe made hands down for the 12R...
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 05, 2013 11:19 AM
Here's just a bit of humor for this thread.. It seems the owner of the record setting 12R is an Arata man himself.
he likes it so well he posted pictures of just how beautiful the Arata is. All these picturs came from dude's own photobucket.
And while I was shopping around in there I came across this little item and I thought to myself WOW THAT'S A HUGE LOAD THERE... If he ever decides to put that onto that 1427 the records will really fall. I for one would love to see how fast that bike would go with it. Hell why not use it since clearly he already has it and the bike is already running in a class that allows it. People could get the wrong impression leaving stuff like that laying around with pictures showing it all plumbed up to a 12R's throttle bodies.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 05, 2013 12:12 PM
that stealth kit was in another country (Canada) during the runs, we had tech check the bike for nitrous. Yes the Arata is a great pipe, so is a Hindle/Brocks.
nuff said, we dont cheat. talk to tech or any racer there for that matter
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Color Me Gone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
|
posted September 05, 2013 02:40 PM
Edited By: Color Me Gone on 5 Sep 2013 22:46
my first pipe was a muzzys i bought in 2000 it was a big improvement over the stock setup. except it burned a hole in my lower fairing.
i was doing track days at Gratton raceway and all the fast zx6 and gsxr 600s were wearing Aratas. they were beautiful and sounded awesome. most important they were on the fastest bikes. sure enough Arata made one for the 12!!! instant improvement in power! throttle response was vastly improved. as the pic that gunner posted above shows, i started track day racing with the 12. indecently the bike in the pic is my second 12 with a Arata. i still have that bike too.(i hav 3 ZX12Rs lol)
i dont know about any other pipes that are similar to the muzzys or Arata, but between these two pipes it would be Arata hands down. if striker is arata then i would BUY. i dont have the money to test all the pipes so this is all i can go by. i do know why ace used one though and when i saw that bike for the first time it made me happy to see a Arata on it. with that said my muzzys wasnt junk. i am sure the other manufactures arent junk either. but if your asking for personal opinion then mine is Arata.
Ali, thanks.
just to be clear, our 226mph run was immediately inspected by Tim Kelly. his contact info is on the LTA web site. we indeed were all motor. (Karl...WOW)
Gunner thanks for the props, the ZX12R is still not fully developed and if our crew doest find its ceiling, someone else will, to awesome of a motorcycle to go away.
Henry
cmg
|
Color Me Gone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
|
posted September 05, 2013 02:56 PM
Edited By: Color Me Gone on 5 Sep 2013 23:01
one more quick point about the Arata. if you look in the pic above, by the rearset you will see a ugly scare. i crashed my 12 at 100mph. i hit a construction barrel which blew out the clutch cover and rearset crushing the ti pipe. which dumped me on the left side of the bike!!!
damaged #4 down pipe too. the ti material is so good my welder (whos amazing) was able to heat and pull everything out...almost to 100% fit !!!
Arata rearsets too!!!
Henry
cmg
|
KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted September 05, 2013 03:56 PM
running in fuel is way less hassle, we top up the cell for each pass to try and keep the fuel cooler and to make damn sure we dont run out, so its just easier. not to mention taking the record from a nitrous bike in the aps f class (NA) was pretty sweet 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 06, 2013 11:22 AM
Here's the problem that exist. I'll address the Arata deal first since it's the simplest. Henry done a great job detailing what makes the Arata pipe the best pipe on the planet hands down and if anyone else has been lucky enough to get one before they were all sold out then you know yourself what makes them so great. From quality of construction to performance there's NO EQUAL. I think even Lang Hindle would agree to that statement. At the same time not everyone is as serious about owning the best of the best as some and that's fine, but comparing the finest filet you ever eat to a McDonalds hamburger would be and is insane. That's what it is comparing Arata to most all the rest. Only the Ti Aka comes close to matching the Arata on a 12R when talking street or road racing pipes. Sidewinders are a completely different story since they aren't restricted to keeping inside the fairings they allow the pipe designer a much easier task of building the best pipe possible. The sidewinder pipes in most all cases will make more peak power since they are designed for drag racing purposes the designer doesn't care much about anything except WFO! Take that same sidewinder and map it all the way from the bottom to the top and you'll quickly see the holes in the power through the mid section of the range. Again that's because they have a single purpose and that's the max power at wide open throttle. I'm sure there's some other pipes that come close but when you compare them side by side NOTHING matches the Arata pipe. Compare every aspect of it side by side as I have done when I owned a 12R with an Aka and one with an Arata. They don't come close anywhere you compare. Enough about the freakin pipes since all the shit started because someone new to the 12R ask about mods and I answered his post. The little mean girl circle of Shane, KZScott, and Hibler all had to jump on Ol Gunners back as usual and as expected. Seriously that group must jack off to a Gunner poster nightly! I must fill their dreams since that little circle can't seem to give it a rest.
Now moving on to the record breaking 12R. Henry you assembled a very nice LSR package and I take my hat off to you Sir for a job well done. I can appreciate the bike for what it is and what it's intended purpose is. I think it's ass ugly without a tank but I understand why it doesn't have one. The problem you guys have is simple and I'm sure Shane knew this since he lives for nothing more than LSR he knew what the world would think when the bike was entered into a fuel class. KZScott remarked above that it's just easier to run that class BS. You guys knew you would get called out for the fuel class and that's EXACTLY WHY the picture was taken while still at the track pouring the fuel into a car tank. You knew there would be issues with the class you chose to run. As far as cheating goes I'm not saying anyone cheated since the class you ran was legal to use NOS or up to and including Nitro if you so desired. Asking the tech man if the bike was legal will result in an answer of yes since in was entered into a class that allows NOS. The problem with that is NOS is a power adder just the same as a turbo, or blower and you guys know that. Since the class the bike ran in allows NOS and there's all those pictures of a huge fogger system with the LSR fender in the background of one of the pictures above there's always going to be a shadow hanging over the achievement that you guys made. 226 mph is hauling ass for NA but not really as impressive from a bike on the juice in the grand scheme of life. It's still a very impressive achievement with a 12R even with spray I take my hat off and bow to your bike Henry. But to get that monkey off it's back why not run it in a gas class where your fuel is issued to you and spray isn't legal? Calling the tech man from this last deal asking if a bike that was entered into a class that allows spray and fuel was legal is going to be met with a yes doesn't rule out the possibility that it was running that wet system sitting in your garage. I'm not calling anyone a cheater and I'm not dissing what you done because what you done is huge. But claiming an NA record means running in a GAS class with spec fuel for a reason. There's several reasons why they issue fuel for those people making record attempts on N.A classes and you guys broke just about every one of the reasons spec fuels are used. Every N.A class racer from NHRA Prostock on down runs spec fuel because there's just too many ways to cheat with fuel. When I was working for the ProStock car team we had to be issued fuel before each run and after each run we had to give a fuel sample to be checked because there's just too many ways to cheat with fuel and claiming an N.A record means Gas only. We have all seen where KZScott has been playing with a fuel mixture recently and what do ya know he's involved in this little group. There's so much shadowing this record that it's hard to not wonder. Bike prep and set up means a lot but running that much better cast a lot of doubt that could have all been avoided if you had only entered then bike in a gas class and not a fuel class.
Henry you Sir done more in one event than all the others before you have done in a decade of trying. My personal feeling are that I hope more than you do probably that the bike was in legal gas trim. There's not another person on the planet that believes in the 12R more than I.
One last thing Hibler take notice there's no nasty foul mouth language or name calling in my post. Can you keep it clean?
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted September 06, 2013 12:02 PM
Edited By: shiphteey on 6 Sep 2013 20:14
All this talk about Arata pipes makes me want one now.
Gunner....I'll trade you a GENUINE MUZZYS TITANIUM WITH A STAINLESS BUNG WELDED ON, DEBADGED TITANIUM MUFFLER, STAINLESS BRACKET AND 4 NEW EXHAUST GASKETS + 1000 ROUNDS OF 7.62 FOR THAT YUCKY ARATA.
.....
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted September 06, 2013 12:14 PM
More than slightly used ... but hey ... you get that cammy wap wapwap wap waaaaap wap wap sound at idle. And nothing feels better than sweeping past 2500 rpms while it surges forward and you simultaneously roll OFF. Throttle control x 10 mofo!
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC