Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 25, 2013 02:25 PM
 Edited By: Gunner on 26 May 2013 01:50
All what times Hibs? And what BULL SHIT you speaking of? All the (TIME) I posted a thread named Perfection in progress when it was obvious it was me posting because I answered to Gunner when those whom knew what the inside of my shop looks like from old pictures? That's not hiding because I don't want anyone to know it's me son. All the rest of the people that were banned because they were accused of being me well that's just sad. There's a few common thread people that accuse anyone that comes on either of these sites and goes against their opinion of being me. Clever little comments like " Someone is Gunning for you " Clever shit like that. Then the ones like Doug here that don't know me, never met me, knows nothing about me, that pop off his washer such as he done in a thread here in the drag racing section where someone was posting under some name and was accused of being me repeatedly because whomever the guy was didn't have a high enough post count to know what he was talking about. It's untelling how many people have been banned over being accused of being me by the same ol group of haters. The ones that make their little jabs and cry foul ball when you swing back at them like the pussies they are.
Doug I'm also here for the tech stuff however I'm also currently here to make sure all those that think I need to hide to let them know how stupid they are know that I don't need to hide, pretend to be someone else, have a different screen name, etc... I'll stand strait in a man's face and say anything I'll type right here. I'm not one of these guys that has never been anywhere except behind a keyboard. I've traveled all over the US and Canada and met dozens of board members in person. Attended rallys, helped plan and organize rallys, spent my own money from my pocket to help make these rally's possible for others to attend and enjoy etc... Tell us all again what exactly have you ever done that didn't serve yourself and yourself only?
Hibs with the exception of this thread where I called out Doug show me where I've started shit with anyone that didn't shoot their mouth off first. Hell in the one thread I posted of my 12R (mentioned above) that was indeed posted under a different screen name some idiot ask about my motor and when I told him that wasn't a topic open for discussion the fuckers starts in with I OWED the board members an answer to any question they ask and I'm a SOB basically because I answered that I wouldn't discuss my motor... Those guys get what they deserve.... NO ONE OWES ANYONE SHIT! NO ONE in racing gives away their motor secrets not even guys you pay to build you a motor tell you what they do to your own motor and anyone that thinks they are owed information like that is to stupid to be posting in the first place. I've spend tens of thousands of dollars learning what works and what kills parts if someone wants to know those secrets they need to belly up to the bar and pay their dues. Some information gets given away for free but no one tells you what's going on inside their motor yet I was attacked at your beloved Kawasaki World because I said off limits and I'm suppose to take shit like that from some dick head that thinks because he owns the same motorcycle as I do he's my equal, I don't think so.The real funny part is the damn thing is stock as a Clock! Being banned for life because there's one moderator that is a POS and his mod powers is the only thing that makes him feel like a man is bull shit anyway. I have never posted there and started trouble. When I have posted there it was helping people. Whom do you think recently helped Vince Hill gather the information he needed to have velocity stacks machined for the 04/05 throttle bodies? Do you think it was one of those talkers or GUNNER? Kinda funny isn't it that Vince needed information and I posted here stating there's some interesting things I discovered isn't it? Funny how the one person that's banned from here to hell and back is the one person still making sure other guys get the shit they need to go fast isn't it? Yea Hibs that's the way I come onto a site a stir shit... ( Nothing like your post here that's only purpose in the world was to try and stir shit) What exactly have you ever done to help others that required you to spend a dime or go out of your way for nothing in it for you? You really don't want me to start a list.... But you're one of the best to shoot that mouth and point that finger. Just like the way you dog bit Ship the very person that picked your sorry ass up out of the gutter and helped you get your start with the 12R. Everyone knows what all he done for you, and you repaid him by posting his personal information like some CUNT would do and followed that up by back stabbing him every chance you got.. What all is it again you've done to further anyone along except yourself again? Oh you posted a thread on how to swap a swingarm but the real work on that was all done buy others that YOU PURCHASED PARTS FROM to allow you to make a swap. CMG done all the work and made all the parts to make that swap then you post a thread like you're someone to be instructing anyone how to do anything other than hang off someone's nut sack.
It will never be known how many people have been banned on that site because they were thought to be me. Those guys are relentless and pathetic. For a guy making a post claiming I go on a site to just post shit and argue perhaps you need to back up and ask yourself exactly what was the purpose of the post you made here.... Was it to stir shit and argue? Sure it was...
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
  
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 26, 2013 01:33 PM
quote:
I'm suppose to take shit like that from some dick head that thinks because he owns the same motorcycle as I do he's my equal, I don't think so.
I don't like the way this reads and the time to edit it was past... When I say ( my equal ) that means equal in knowledge concerning these motorcycles NOT that I would ever think I'm better than anyone because no one is better than another man... This needed addressed before it got blown out of proportion and spewed from here to there...
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Hibs
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted May 28, 2013 03:53 AM
I wonder if you can beat your chest any more then what you do? It's funny how much you talk yourself up for a guy who is just a has been. What records do you hold with a ZX12R? Oh wait, you don't.
And let's be clear. Ali never did anything to help me. To say he "pulled me from the gutter" is pure BS. He never taught me a thing. It is true, when I met him I had no experience doing top speed runs. And he loved that, as he pitted me against guys who he knew would mop the floor with me. All to let him and his friends get an ego boost. Once i started to get the hang of it, and then beat him at his own game, he didn't want to be friends any more. No skin off my back. He was no true friend anyways.
I posted that thread because CMG asked me to! In order to help other people who wanted to do a same swap. You see, unlike you, I don't give two fucks about "fame or fortune" on the internet. I could care less how many people like me, or what "name for myself" I have made to a bunch of old men online. I guess I'll leave that for you Gunndog.
Anyways, this thread is beat to shit. I don't have a leg to hold in this fight. Afterall, I'm just a punk with a Brocks/Hindle pipe so clearly I have no room to speak about anything ZX12R related. Peace.
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted May 28, 2013 08:46 AM
And let's be clear. Ali never did anything to help me.
-----Oh really? I won't even go into the list of things I've helped you out on. Suffice to say not one person who has met either of us would believe that.
To say he "pulled me from the gutter" is pure BS. He never taught me a thing.
----Again a flat out lie. I didn't help you out with gearing? I didn't help you with your tuck? I didn't help you realize you were wasting your money with the 93 octane? How about that lightweight rotor? How about helping you pick a better speed for you to run Ryan against since he was spooling you high? Yeah, I'm sure in the time we spent hanging out, riding and racing I didn't help you with "a thing".
It is true, when I met him I had no experience doing top speed runs. And he loved that, as he pitted me against guys who he knew would mop the floor with me.
----??? How was I supposed to know you'd get drug that bad???? But hell we had some 3 way races that were tooth and nail, I'm sure you remember the R1 and 1000RR. Did you not get better? Perform better? Remember that slapper you had near the end? If it wasn't for that we had a 3 way race to the end. But based on your tone its clear as day now why you ended up getting sideways with me...you always had a chip on your shoulder for taking an L. I was never against you, ever. You were a fellow 12 rider I helped out. Just shows how ungrateful of a person you are now singing then tune you are.
All to let him and his friends get an ego boost.
----No, if anything I liked setting up competitive races. Sometimes you can't predict the outcome, like when I'd beat guys only a few pounds heavier when they had a 1000 and I was on a 600. Thats usually due to inexperience. But as they get faster and better they come up to speed. Wasn't that the case with YOU?
Once i started to get the hang of it, and then beat him at his own game, he didn't want to be friends any more. No skin off my back. He was no true friend anyways.
----Lets be perfectly clear here, under normal circumstances you never have, and never would beat me. And you won't find one person on this forum or the other that would put a red cent on you coming out on top. So don't kid yourself, I did help you out, I got stabbed in the back and then you want to go putting up my personal info out there. Its all good though, I'm not trippin. And I don't need a cold tailwind to run mid 9s.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 28, 2013 02:52 PM
quote:
Anyways, this thread is beat to shit. I don't have a leg to hold in this fight. Afterall, I'm just a punk with a Brocks/Hindle pipe so clearly I have no room to speak about anything ZX12R related. Peace.
Finally something out of your mouth that remotely resembles the truth and is beneficial to someone. As for my records or YouTube videos or post count on a wedsite or whatever else you and the rest of your generation think make you a man or make you fast.... I'm 50 the only people that carried a cell phone when I raced was doctors and the President... Sounds like a long time ago but you'll still never go as fast as I went probably before you were born. My son was born in 1988 and I stopped racing then to be a dad. However I had already gone 1.07 60' and 4.50 at 150.50 in the 1/8 mile on my Funnybike which I built in my own shop. Notice that duel mag drive I designed and built 26 years ago to go along with that duel plug head that I had 1 of 3 that existed at that time .....You know Hibs I always thought the military taught respect clearly you skipped out that day. Tell me again Hibs what all have you designed, machined, fabricated, built, or anything other than mail order and copy how someone else bolted it on before you? Really all that ? What all equipment does your fabrication facility have in it these days? WOW! that's alot I'll bet you can build some cool shit with that? Oh yea you have a YouTube Video on how to swap a swingarm using parts that someone else designed and sold to you for a profit... Nice skills you have there Hibs.... Perhaps you're right you should STFU and let the men speak so you'll have something else to copy and make a YouTube Video about how it's done. Did your parents have any kids that actually lived that weren't oxygen deprived at birth?
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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plaer
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 07, 2013 06:39 PM
quote:
plaer i bet you never thought this post you put up would end up this way...
so what year is it. what do you want to do with it. if just ride it i say keep it stock.
they are durable. i have 18000 on mine and it has a whole lot of passes.
if you are going to woop up on it i would think on the clutch basket like others said.
also do not worry much on getting a aftermarket air filter. do that last. use the money elseware till there is nothing to do.
get a stearing dampener. i have a scotts. i went down at the dragstrip from a tank slapper.
i have helibars on also. it sits alot better for me that way.
i plan on just riding but i wanted to make sure i wasnt missing out on anything, or some easy fix seriously increased the life or drivability of the bike. What would a steering damper do for me? I would like to do a pipe but Arata is as much as i paid for the bike, and i cant get a concrete bang for a "reasonable" buck. ALSO, is there anyway to change the neutral so I can shift into it while rolling, I really miss being able to do a rolling neutral???????????????????????????
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted June 08, 2013 01:20 AM
The rolling neutral can be done but requires opening the cases... But if you're really carefull, you can find neutral when rolling. Just use very low pressure coming from 2nd. It's not easy but it's doable.
I think that early in this thread you got good advices how to proceed. And about the pipe: personally I think that the weight saving of the pipe is more important than maybe gaining 1-2 hp on top between differen pipes. Because in street you rarely need the full power - or at least you won't notice the difference of 2 hp.
So just do the normal maintenace and start enjoying your bike.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted June 08, 2013 06:30 AM
One thing that helps with the driveability is switching to 190/55 rear tyre. And especially if it's A-model (00-01) raise the rear with 4mm shim over the rear shock. And overhaul the forks with new oils.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted June 13, 2013 03:59 AM
quote:
One thing that helps with the driveability is switching to 190/55 rear tyre. And especially if it's A-model (00-01) raise the rear with 4mm shim over the rear shock. And overhaul the forks with new oils.
Very sound and usable advise!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Hibs
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted August 31, 2013 07:20 PM
Edited By: Hibs on 1 Sep 2013 03:21
quote:
Opinions vary... Most of the above sounds like good advise except the Header pipe. Hindle stuff is cheap and why so many people have them. The best pipe for the 12R hands down is the Arata. Worn by the fastest Aspirated 12R in the world.
Ace Performance built bike 1287cc 212.8 MPH in the mile... All motor no power adders
That's no longer the fastest NA kawi in the mile. I even heard the new record holder was wearing a BROCKS pipe.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 10:51 AM
Edited By: Gunner on 1 Sep 2013 20:47
If it's not still the record holder then you show us all who is? NA means NO Spray, NO Turbo, AND we aren't counting the 20 MPH Tailwind runs from Loring 2 or 3 years back. So who is it ? Also loring is 1.5 mile in length..
If you have information to share then by all means post up. But posting the " Heard BS" proves nothing other than you believe anything you're told. So who is it that owns the record now and what bike? It's very possible that a 14 or 14R has the record now but I haven't seen it.
And one more tid bit of information for you that I'm sure Brock will probably agree to.. His new CT pipes like the ones he sells for the 14 are NOT made by the same company as the Hindle low end pipe he sells for the 12R...He may offer a sidewinder pipe for the 12R that's not Hindle I can't say since I haven't seen one. If I owned a new 14R I would most likely buy a Brock CT pipe for it BUT that's not a 12R and it's not made by Lang Hindle .. Hindle pipes are budget pipes not anywhere near the front runners like Arata , Aka, Arrow, Leo Vince , etc
The simple facts are this. The 12R has been out of production in the US since 2005 for you that equals 8 years. There has been NO new parts made for the thing in at least that long if not longer since the interest in 12Rs was never anywhere near what there was for a Busa. Brock's new CT Pipes weren't in existence 8 years ago. His new stuff like the CT pipe and his new Ti Winder are nice pipes and they produce good power BUT he does NOT list one for the 12R. Here's a link to prove it that. http://www.brocksperformance.com/Kawasaki-ZX-14+C133.aspx
Brock's new stuff is just as expensive as an Arata he even has one pipe that's $2500 for a 14R. People bitch and cry because an Arata pipe cost 2K but they never seem to cry about Brock's pipe costing 2K. When you compare apples to apples that's what they cost if they are Titanium. To my knowledge Hindle doesn't offer Titanium pipes for anything. Step headers are what manufactures done before they started Hydro Forming tubes for a much nicer pipe.
Again who owns the record for NA Kawasaki in the mile?
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2013 12:45 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Sep 2013 20:56
quote:
If it's not still the record holder then you show us all who is? NA means NO Spray, NO Turbo, AND we aren't counting the 20 MPH Tailwind runs from Loring 2 or 3 years back. So who is it ? Also loring is 1.5 mile in length..
You know making post like you do without backing up your BS with anymore proof than I heard BS is just another punk move from you. If you have something to add or something to prove then by all means educate us all..
And one more tid bit of information for you that I'm sure Brock will probably agree to.. His new pipes like the ones he sells for the 14 are NOT made by the same company as the Hindle JUNK he sells for the 12R...He may offer a sidewinder pipe for the 12R that's not Hindle junk I can't say since I haven't seen one. If I owned a new 14R I would most likely buy a Brock pipe for it BUT that's not a 12R and it's not made by Lang Hindle .. Hindle pipes are budget pipes not anywhere near the front runners like Arata , Aka, Arrow, Leo Vince , etc
Again who owns the record for NA Kawasaki in the mile?
Warp12 Racing supported 1427 owns the mile at 222+.
Fastest NA Kaw in the world, at 226+ into a headwind, in the 1.5. BROCK'S Stainless sidewinder.
Shane
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 01:00 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 1 Sep 2013 21:15
Well there you have it... Since there has been NO reports from the last Lorning event who knew? I knew CMG had Karls old 1427 motor but as I stated above there's hasn't been any information posted that I have seen from the last Lorning event.
I'm a man and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to say so. In this case I was wrong or maybe better said I was misinformed since there's been nothing posted anywhere about Lorning. It's just that simple I have heard nothing about this until this minute so good for CMG he done far more with that package that was done with it in all the time it was raced by the original owner. I also stated above that Brock may have a better pipe in the sidewinder style pipe but I wasn't sure since I haven't ever seen one. If a person is going to post up information then posting the proof is all that's required to back up your post. Post up I heard BS without anything to back it up proves nothing. So why the big secret until now about CMG's success? Hell I'll celebrate with him since it was done on a 12R.
One more thing of interest to me is the record is held by a 12R not a 14 which tickles the shit out of me since I'm a firm believer that the 12R still has lots of potential to be had by looking in the right places. One other question is........... Was CMG riding that bike when it ran those numbers? I ask because he's a big boy and if it ran that well with him on it there's a LOT more to be had from a jockey size rider..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2013 01:09 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Sep 2013 21:13
quote:
Well there you have it... Since there has been NO reports from the last Lorning event who knew? I knew CMG had Karls old 1427 motor but as I stated above there's hasn't been any information posted that I have seen from the last Lorning event.
I'm a man and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to say so. In this case I was wrong or maybe better said I was misinformed since there's been nothing posted anywhere about Lorning. It's just that simple I have heard nothing about this until this minute so good for CMG he done far more with that package that was done with it in all the time it was raced by the original owner. I also stated above that Brock may have a better pipe in the sidewinder style pipe but I wasn't sure since I haven't ever seen one. There you have it
This weekend was the Loring event. I have updated Landracing.com, and Suzukihayabusa.org along the way. Check those sites for regular updates.
As for the exhausts, Hindle has stated that the sidewinder is basically the same design in a different package. Similar materials, tube length, and welding, afaik. I have a standard Brock/Hindle here, and it is very well made.
Shane
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 01:20 PM
OH so this record just happened within the last day or two? That's a horse of a different color since the information I posted was 100% accurate until the last day or so meaning when I made the above post I wasn't misinforming anyone. I still stand corrected since it's a new record but I wasn't passing bad information which is something I don't like having my name attached to. I'm totally good with the situation and I don't have to bitch slap myself for posting wrong information since at the time I posted it I was correct according to the post dates and the date of the new record.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2013 01:26 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Sep 2013 21:27
KZ Scott rode the bike to the new Kawasaki world record. Congrats to Scott and Henry, I am glad we could help. 
Shane
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 01:32 PM
quote:
As for the exhausts, Hindle has stated that the sidewinder is basically the same design in a different package. Similar materials, tube length, and welding, afaik. I have a standard Brock/Hindle here, and it is very well made.
Shane
As for the exhaust if someone ask me what's the best pipe for a 12R which was the question here in this thread I'm going to say Arata every time still. However if the same question was posted about a 14 my answer would be different and most likely be Brock's 2 CT system. Basically the same design and the same design don't cut it.. Hell they're all basically the same design aren't they? All 4 into 1 by either using a 4 into 1 collector or by using Tri Y design as most NON sidewinder pipes use. It come down to preference and personal choice as much as budget. It also comes down to the bikes intended use since sidewinder exhaust aren't the best choice for a street bike. If someone post a question as to the best selection of parts for a street bike verses a trailer queen race bike the answers will most all be different as well. If you want to get right down to it the fastest pipes in the world are Zoomies like the once on a top fuel car. NO collector at all and they hold all the records. However you would never use them on a street car or street bike. The point is what's the intended use of the vehicle that someone is wanting suggestions for?
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 01:35 PM
quote:
KZ Scott rode the bike to the new Kawasaki world record. Congrats to Scott and Henry, I am glad we could help.
Shane
It's amazing what a properly set up bike can do with basically the same motor that was in another bike not properly set up.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2013 01:39 PM
quote:
quote:
KZ Scott rode the bike to the new Kawasaki world record. Congrats to Scott and Henry, I am glad we could help.
Shane
It's amazing what a properly set up bike can do with basically the same motor that was in another bike not properly set up.
We have had our differences, but this we agree on. Setup is everything.
Guys bust my balls over rattle-can paint, but for me, paint is the last thing on my mind. Superior parts, set up right...that's "where it's at". IMO.
Shane
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 01:52 PM
Again as long as it's a 12R I'm happy because it proves the 12R was given up on far too soon. Personally for my own use that bike wouldn't be for me for no other reason than I gave up owning trailer queen race bikes many years back. I have a lot more fun with a bike set up for corners than strait line anymore but I'm knocking on 50's door and I've spent far too much time at a drag strip over the last 30 years than I care to think about all the waiting bores me to tears now days. That doesn't mean I don't respect what someone else does when it's something huge like this. KZScott is still a lot larger than Zach or Chad Millholland meaning with one of those two riding the thing it will give more still yet. I'm impressed with how well it runs.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2013 02:05 PM
quote:
Again as long as it's a 12R I'm happy because it proves the 12R was given up on far too soon. Personally for my own use that bike wouldn't be for me for no other reason than I gave up owning trailer queen race bikes many years back. I have a lot more fun with a bike set up for corners than strait line anymore but I'm knocking on 50's door and I've spent far too much time at a drag strip over the last 30 years than I care to think about all the waiting bores me to tears now days. That doesn't mean I don't respect what someone else does when it's something huge like this. KZScott is still a lot larger than Zach or Chad Millholland meaning with one of those two riding the thing it will give more still yet. I'm impressed with how well it runs.
Just because Scott is larger doesn't mean Chad or Zack would be faster. This is an aero game. A balance of aero, size, and skill is what runs the number. You know Chad and Zack personally, so perhaps you have a bias.
There is a lot of misinformation in the LSR realm. I am not here to correct it. At the end of the day, we look at the record books. Warp12 Racing and Scott Davis have the ink. Feel free to dream about what might have been.
In the meantime, Henry, Scott, and I will celebrate our victory. And with a standard Brock's pipe, no less.
Shane
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 04:51 PM
You just have to get nasty don't you? I'm not going to be dragged into a pissing match with you. I have better stuff to be doing . Enjoy your ink If coming into this person's thread and dragging it off track was your intent you done well. I congratulated the new record and openly said I wasn't aware of it with good reason since it just happened. Why you have to be a prick about it all will remain your little secret since no one else cares much. I'm not now or ever going to run a sidewinder pipe so a pipe that limits the bike from being used for corners has zero interest to me and about 98% of the rest of the world. So for the other 98% the answer is still the same the Arata is still the best header on the planet for the 12R. Sal proved it will work in the mile as well as it gets around corners without dragging it off on the pavement. We aren't comparing apples to apples here. Telling a person a sidewinder is the header they need for a street bike isn't doing them any favors..
Shouldn't you be celebrating anyway?
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted September 01, 2013 06:42 PM
Congrats to all involved. 13 years later the ol' 12R still has it.
I'm a little curious ...
What class was this bike entered in? Gas or Fuel? Modified or Altered?
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted September 01, 2013 06:43 PM
love my zx12.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 01, 2013 06:55 PM
quote:
Just because Scott is larger doesn't mean Chad or Zack would be faster. This is an aero game. A balance of aero, size, and skill is what runs the number. You know Chad and Zack personally, so perhaps you have a bias.
I know Zach well but I only know Chad in passing. I'm not picking them because I'm bias. They have done plenty to allow their reputation speak for it's self. Both of those boys wouldn't weight over 140 pounds each which usually makes for better Aero. BY the way what fuel was being used on those record runs and what class did the bike fit in just out of curiosity.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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