plaer
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted April 15, 2013 08:14 PM
What to do to my new ZX12R???
Just got my 12r and am wondering what I NEED to to and what I should WISH to do to make it better (if it needs it)? Please let me know what you all think!
  
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Hibs
Expert Class
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posted April 16, 2013 05:48 AM
what you NEED? 17 tooth front sprocket. Brocks/Hindle exhaust. Power commander 3 USB. Billet Clutch basket.
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plaer
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted April 16, 2013 06:55 AM
quote:
what you NEED? 17 tooth front sprocket. Brocks/Hindle exhaust. Power commander 3 USB. Billet Clutch basket.
I gues I should have added, "and why" 
please dont just say "cause its awesome", i'm really interested in the why as well.
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zx12mark
Pro
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posted April 16, 2013 06:59 AM
You should ride it for a year and make your own decisions. What the fuck you people think these bike forums are a DEAR ABBY column.
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Hibs
Expert Class
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posted April 16, 2013 07:22 AM
17tooth front sprocket.... WHY? stock gearing is 18 front/ 46 rear. Stepping down to a 17 tooth front gives you stronger acceleration with only minimal lost in top speed. Best kick in the pants gain in acceleration for the money. Sprocket is less then $50.
Brocks/Hindle exhaust....WHY? The ZX12R is corked BIG TIME from the factory. A bolt on/slip on muffler does nothing to increase Horspower, the restriction is in the header. Adding any aftermarket header will help, but the Brocks/Hindle is arguably one of the best. I'm talking like 15-20hp just from exhaust.
Power Commander 3 USB... WHY? Use it to adjust your air fuel ratio after you add the exhaust. The free flowing exhaust means you'll lean the bike out a little. With the power command you'll be able to richen it back up, get a few more Horsepower and make a smooth power delivery.
Billet Clutch basket... WHY? With the new found horsepower and acceleration, you'll risk grenading the stock clutch basket. This is one of the weak spots on the ZX12R that needs to be swapped out with a heavy duty unit if you plan to do any type of agressive riding.
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plaer
Parking Attendant
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posted April 16, 2013 12:43 PM
thanks thats great advice....... More so than the people that run around these forums sidetracking every conversaation with their useless lip flapping!
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plaer
Parking Attendant
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posted April 16, 2013 04:26 PM
if i change the front sprocket, dont i have to change the back sprocket?
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Gunner
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posted April 16, 2013 08:12 PM
 Edited By: Gunner on 17 Apr 2013 04:24
Opinions vary... Most of the above sounds like good advise except the Header pipe. Hindle stuff is cheap and why so many people have them. The best pipe for the 12R hands down is the Arata. Worn by the fastest Aspirated 12R in the world.
Ace Performance built bike 1287cc 212.8 MPH in the mile... All motor no power adders
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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tuusinii
Pro
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posted April 17, 2013 05:16 AM
I'd first start with good overhoul: change fork oils, (maybe litte bit stiffer springs - especially if you're over 67kg (150lbs)), change oils, coolant, brake fluids. Check throttle body sync, TPS, valve clearances, clean/replace air filter and tires if they're old/worn. Then start with pipe, etc... And don't forget to ride in between! Welcome to the forum!
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Hibs
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posted April 17, 2013 07:16 AM
quote:
Opinions vary... Most of the above sounds like good advise except the Header pipe. Hindle stuff is cheap and why so many people have them. The best pipe for the 12R hands down is the Arata. Worn by the fastest Aspirated 12R in the world.
Ace Performance built bike 1287cc 212.8 MPH in the mile... All motor no power adders
Like you said, opinions vary. I'm sure Arata is a great pipe. But I wouldn't call Brocks/Hindle stuff cheap junk.
All one has to do is look at how many bikes are going fast and setting records with their exhaust. Hard to overlook that.
http://www.brocksperformance.com/brocknm/team_reports.aspx
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Gunner
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posted April 17, 2013 11:36 PM
Hell I posted the worlds fastest NA ZX12R and we're talking 12R here right? That bike had the world famous Muzzy on it when dude purchased it and it was replaced with the Arata. Nothing on the planet compares to the Arata.. There's plenty of Brock pipes out the but not many 12Rs that have went fast have them that I've ever seen but I don't see as well as I once did also. Please help me out and post up those record setting 12Rs with a Brock/ Hindle pipe so I can catch up to all those bikes I've clearly over looked please.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Gunner
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posted April 17, 2013 11:40 PM
If the difference was small I wouldn't mention it but in this case the difference is huge in all areas. Fit, finish, quality, and power. I've had as many as 4 different brands of 12R pipes side by side in the shop floor and the Arata is by far superior. in every way then the performance speaks for it'self. I'm sure they could have replaced the Muzzy with a Brock pipe over the Arata but didn't.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Hibs
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Posts: 127
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posted April 18, 2013 09:52 AM
Highest horsepower naturally aspirated ZX-12R with what? none other then a Brocks sidewinder...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvLKvDCYcZQ
Fastest ZX-14R in the world (top speed) wears a Brocks exhaust....
Record setting ZX10R wearing Brocks exhaust, the list just goes on and on.....
I am not trying to tell you that Arata isn't a good pipe. Hell, it MAY BE better then Brocks. But for you to say that Brocks is just Cheap Junk is a WRONG statement.
The performance speaks for itself? So since you had 4 different 12R pipes side to side I am taking it that you did a dyno or drag test comparison? Please show me where there are some HUGE gains by going with Arata over Brocks. I could see a couple horsepower difference, but not something HUGE like you are making it out to be.
My own '00 ZX12R that only mods were a Hindle pipe, PC3USB, strapped lowered and 16/44 gearing ran a best of 9.50 @ 150mph.... so please tell me Gunner what is your best ET and MPH with your Arata ZX12R?
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Gunner
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posted April 18, 2013 01:22 PM
Edited By: Gunner on 18 Apr 2013 21:32
Brocks sidewinder -------------------------------------> IS NOT A HINDLE!!!!!!!!!!! None of the newest brock stuff is from what I been told but I may be wrong.... We weren't talking sidewinder pipes here son. We are talking street pipes and you changed gears in the middle. This guy isn't asking about a drag pipe. Hindle pipes are cheap pipes. I didn't say junk I said they sell a lot because they are inexpensive which is the truth.. Do you not think Sal could have put any pipe he wanted on Dale's 12R? You ever held an Arata in your hands and looked at it close? I build 4 and 5 grand sets of headers for race cars in my shop all the time. One of a kind custom stuff for drag cars. Tubes going everywhere wrapping in. over, thru, around just about everything in the engine bay. I know a thing or two about headers. I've owned Arata, AK, Ti Force, just about all the top headers made for bikes as well.. NOTHING comes close to an Arata for quality and how it makes power. NO flat spots anywhere, no stumbles anywhere, perfect idle, smooth transitions all the way up and they make big power.. The insides are as smooth as the outside. There's no burs on the inside, no sugering on the welds, no steps or mismatched transitions from tube to tube... They are perfection from tip to tip... You can lick the damn thing inside out and never scratch your tongue if you had a mind to. They are the best header pipe made hands down for the 12R...
I don't drag race my sportbike Hibs I turn corners with it. My best et is 4.50 at 150 in the 1/8 but that was 25 years ago on my FunnyBike... My drag days are done since compressing my spine will result in being back in a wheelchair.. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone. When you go 4.5 in the 1/8 let me know maybe I'll drag out my old race bike from on top of the shelf in my shop and teach my son to ride it since he has a solid spinal cord and I don't.
I'm not impressed with how a sportbike feels at the drag strip to be honest. Once you let the clutch out on a real race bike anything less than a 1.0 and under 60' is a little less than exciting. I am impressed with the outlaw bikes and the new ProMods. If I were interested in drag racing still and had a spine that would allow it that's what I would race. I still wouldn't drag race my sport bike. Going around corners is a lot more fun....Here's my race bike this was back in 1986, 87 about that time.. What ever year it was MTC came out with the aftermarket duel plug cylinder head because this picture was just after I finished install that and building THE FIRST ANYWHERE Duel mag set up for the new cylinder head that was the second one from production. Tony Tipton has the first one on MTC's shop bike I had the second... He used a battery powered ignition I had duel mag drives that I designed and built myself on a Bridgeport milling machine..... did I mention this was 25 years ago when I was about your age? Are you going that fast at the age you are? Since you're asking me I'm asking you... I quit racing when my son was born in 1988 November. Him having a daddy was more important than me racing at the time and I had achieved my goals in racing...Although I remained in racing on the other side of the coin. I now build other people race equipment so they can go fast. Sportbikes are my fun they are how I satisfy my need for speed when I have an itch. Once you have actually done all this shit it becomes a job and the last thing you want to do in your free time. Corners are where the fun is at because there's so little room for error and fucking up comes at a high price. Drag racing isn't something I would still do even if my spine wasn't destroyed. I moved on past that point since I can't do it on the level I'm accustomed to without risking getting to the end of the track and falling over because my spine was crushed from the G load of the sub 1 second 60' time. Only a fool would risk that and my daddy didn't raise no fool.
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Hibs
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posted April 18, 2013 01:52 PM
quote:
Brocks sidewinder -------------------------------------> IS NOT A HINDLE!!!!!!!!!!! None of the newest brock stuff is from what I been told but I may be wrong.... We weren't talking sidewinder pipes here son. We are talking street pipes and you changed gears in the middle.
I didn't change gears. This is exactly what you asked...
quote:
Please help me out and post up those record setting 12Rs with a Brock/ Hindle pipe so I can catch up to all those bikes I've clearly over looked please.
I posted up video of the highest horsepower naturally aspirated ZX12R showing it wearing a Brocks pipe. I guess I was under the assumption that Brocks/Hindle was the same stuff. I didn't realize or I have no knowledge of them "splitting"..... here, I just did a google search, and this is what I found posted from Brock himself in 2009...
quote:
I used to have to answer the Brock’s vs. Hindle question all of the time…..time made that go away (for the most part) as forum sites (like this one) started educating the general public. It helped also when the “they are the same” guys kept getting SPANKED by my guys on the street. Hindle is ONE of my manufacturers. I ask them to create systems to my specifications, and they build them. I have NO IDEA what else they build or market under their Hindle brand or for anyone else’s. I can tell you that I have exclusive rights to what I design and they have been fantastic over the years in adhering to my specifications and requests for exclusivity.
So I guess it is unfair of us to lump them into the same category. With that said, Gunner, have you handled a BROCKS street exhaust for the ZX12R and care to comment? Like I have all ready mentioned, I have no doubts the Arata is good stuff.
Mysetup is a hybrid. I bought a HINDLE step tube race header, then found a BROCKS megaphone muffler that matched it. The header cost me $180 brand new from an Ebay store close out. The muffler was essentially free. I bought it with a BROCKS sidewinder header used for $200 on craigslist. I kept the muffler, sold the header for $200 so broke even. I'm happy with the performance out of my $180 Brocks/Hindle exhaust setup. Would an Arata benefit me more? Who knows, but I'm not going to waste the money to find out.
In my experience the Hindle header has done me well. And from what I see online, the BROCKS exhaust systems work very well. In my opinion, the original poster would be fine going with any of them (brocks/hindle/arata). There is probably other good ones out there, akra etc.... Regardless, anything is better then stock. No need to continue to argue about it.
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Gunner
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Posts: 5778
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posted April 19, 2013 02:33 PM
I'll say this about that.... If I were to buy a new 14R today I would install a Brocks 2CT system on it without doubt it's the best pipe for that bike with great support by Brock... But that pipe IS NOT made by Hindle.. It's not Brock that I think is cheezie it's the Hindle part of that picture. Their pipes are ugly to me and not of the highest standards like the Arata, Ti-Force, AK, Beet, Arrow, ETC.... Hindle pipes are budget priced and the quality of their manufacturing process matches the price point.. It's far better than stock or even something like a Yosh for a most applications. Yosh at one time were great pipes and I'm sure they still have some good Suzuki pipes that migrate from the racing program to the consumer market.. An Arata pipe is the same pipe as a Striker sold in Japan. Made side by side with different name tags.. Arata is the name of a racer that happens to be friends with the owners of Striker and they market the pipes in the US under his name as a marketing ploy only.. Arata does not even make a Sidewinder pipe. All Sidewinder pipes are designed to give great power at Wide open throttle period. Arata pipes are designed to give max power from the bottom to the top with ZERO flat spots end to end. They spend tons of money building and testing proto type pipes for a new model before they release it for sale. They really are second to none for the 12R.. I've never seen a better pipe yet for the 12R keeping in mind that the 12R has been out of production for 8 years now and was only in production for 5 in the US and 6 in the rest of the world. She's been gone longer than she was here at this point. I still think the 12R is the sexiest bike ever made up to this point. The 14R has a superior motor as it comes from the factory I won't deny since I'm not stupid. But side by side the 12R is far better looking and purpose built than any 14 or 14R... I like the 14R and think it's a great bike. I would have to be retarded to say anything negative about the motor of the 14R.. That bike will make lesser skilled mechanics look far better than a 12R will. It's a NO BRAINER buy the bike call Brock and say here's my credit card number send me everything I need to duplicate Shane's bike and sit back and wait... Break in your motor correctly so the rings seal tight and bolt on the parts..... Shazam!!!!! you have 200 MPH bike that required no skills other than a credit card and a working phone and the ability to read and follow directions... That's fine for some people but I personally like being the under dog.. I whipped my 14's and Busa's with my Gen1 ZX10R than I can recall. They were all shocked that a 998cc bike just stomped their guts out. And the satisfaction of doing the impossible is a feeling that no drug could ever replicate in my mind.... Doing what others say can't be done is my fuel to life and keeps me getting out of bed every day.. Anyone can own a 14R with Brocks whole part department bolted on but very few will ever own a 12R that can whip up on anything rolling that doesn't have a turbo or NOS bolted to it.. Aspirated against Aspirated the 12R in my shop when compete will be hard to beat. Since I sat down with a clean sheet of paper and listed ever positive thing about it and every negative thing about it and started making the good point better and the bad points disappear.. There's no bad points left on this bike.
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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plaer
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted April 19, 2013 07:37 PM
this is very informative, but regarding the sprocket issue, if i change the front sprocket, don't i have to change the back, also, do i really need more acceleration from my zx12r than it already has, i mean, i get that 'll tickle top end only once and a while,BUT, does it need anymore bottom end......................or does it?????????????????????
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shiphteey
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posted April 20, 2013 04:07 AM
Changing the sprocket on the back is not necessary but advisable if you have significnat milage/wear on your drive system. It is usually a good idea to replace it all...however sometimes people don't want to drop coin on an entire system until they are SURE they like that particular setup.
Making no other changes presuming you have stock 18/46 gearing going to a 17 tooth will leave you enough adjustment in the chain to pull the wheel back slightly and reallign with no worries of running out of adjustment (too far forwards or backward).
Most people here sing the praise of 17/46 with good reason. The bike is geared for mid 190s in stock form....and since they put out under 150 RWHP bone stock you'll be hard pressed to get much out of low 180s mph if you are a small individual with some determination. The bike is "overgeared" in its stock configuration. Having said that once you free it (going from a stock exhaust to a quality full exhaust sysytem) horsepower levels jump tremendously to over 170 RWHP. Its enough to make many other non-12 owners quite skeptical, but its fact. A small determined individual now has enough power to break the 190 mph barrier and approach the limit of the bike, even if they don't max out to the very last fraction of rpms remaining. However most avg sized American males (and heck lets be honest lots of 12 riders are on the heavier end of the spectrum) would still feel overgeared with 18/46 even after the exhaust system has been replaced.
Not everyone on a 12R feels the need to spend time deep in 6th, its not everyone's cup of tea. Given the new breed of competition will usually come from the ZX10/S1000RR camp being able to accelerate quickly at the expense of top speeds you may not be able to get to or have any inclination reaching even if you could is why many opt for the 183-ish top speed of 17/46.
Its an inexpensive decision going with a 17 tooth that is fully reversible and reaps big rewards for many. You will find your already optimistic speedometer reading even happier which in turn means you are accumulating even more fake miles on your odometer than you were before the change. Another slight downside is slightly higher RPMs on the hwy at your previous cruising speeds....500 rpms to 1000 or so depending. You will find yourself looking for 7th sometimes.
Personally I found that I didn't like it as much because I maxed out too early. I also didn't like shifting as often as required and preferred the longer gears to carry me and ride the wave of power. But I play deep in 6th and weigh much less than the avg American male...let alone the avg ZX12 owner.
Good luck and try to respect the 12. The speeds climb deceptively and the faster you go the harder the bike seems to pull as you pressurize the ram air system further. Seems to clear its throat when you start getting deep into 4th gear. If you are chasing your buddies on the newer breed of liters remember that off the hwy the 12 is still a 12, not a 1000 in terms of agility. They can handle...just don't ride over your head.
A.
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plaer
Parking Attendant
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posted April 20, 2013 08:27 PM
WOW, shiphteey, thats in depth!!!!!
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Gunner
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posted April 22, 2013 08:33 PM
quote:
WOW, shiphteey, thats in depth!!!!!
He's one of those deep thinking kind of guys ya know!
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shiphteey
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posted April 23, 2013 06:51 AM
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vozizm
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posted May 01, 2013 04:38 PM
Gunner, next time you go to maxton, let a brotha know.
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VOZ
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Gunner
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posted May 01, 2013 10:33 PM
Vozzie Didn't anyone tell you that place is history... Never was my bag anyway I like the corners you remember that right? Tell me you haven't forgot how much fun saying OH FUCK I DONE IT THIS TIME !!!! inside your helmet about 50 times a ride is? You know that feeling that something is about to hurt A LOT but somehow you escape it ? Well some of us escape it I remember one bad day that you had in 06.
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vozizm
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posted May 02, 2013 07:39 AM
O6 was a trip! THANKS FOR KEEPING ME IN GOOD SPIRITS..
I saw the earlier post, you said something about a mile.. I just assumed it was maxton.
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VOZ
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Gunner
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posted May 03, 2013 02:15 AM
I'm told the LSR stuff is where drag racers go when they get to old and too fat to drag race any longer.. I was checking just the other day and yep I qualify. But I still can't bring myself to lower a sport bike. To me all those front end tie downs and lowering links are retarded when you consider the intended use of the design. I guess if I lived in Florida where there are no corners or I simply couldn't ride worth a damn I wouldn't have issues lowering one. I'm making my stuff shorter not longer for quicker handling.. Stretching and lowering a sport bike makes it worthless in my eyes and one set up like I keep my stuff isn't ideal for maximum top speed in the mile. When I was done with the bike above I swore to never again own a trailer queen. If I can't walk into the shop and put a key into a motorcycle and ride it off I have little if any use for it.
06 ended bad buddy since it ended your riding days. Except for a few bad situations like that those were the good days since I wouldn't walk across the street to attend one of those rallies these days with the crew they got over there in charge these days. Craig is in 100% control which is a joke since that guys don't know enough about motorcycles to fill a thimble!
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