jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted October 31, 2011 05:36 AM
I love my new 12... what does she need? Anyone?
Just bought a 2000 zx-12 unrestricted version with barely 16k on her. The bike looks frickin brand new... with a new full Muzzy exhaust system, KnN filters, the PCIII usb mapped with their Muzzy map online, and some other odds and ends ( new plugs, clutch, fuel pump). But I was wondering if I could get some pointers or some opinions on different setups and which products she'll take off with. Right now shes fast... oh my GOD is she fast but I would like to get a little more out of her take-off up to 5000 rpms. Its wierd though... from 0 -3000 (normal take-off) I notice a hesitence cause at 3000 (with NO change in throttle position) she takes OFF super torque like. I almost have to barely let off a bit to smooth out her jump in acceleration, but after that like I said, she's fast! But even wierder than that is when I get on it and push her hard through first, I get this drop in power or something at 5000-6000 rpm. Not much, just a little stutter but enough to notice, I was wondering if thats normal behavior or a combination of the way shes set up or what. I know tweaking the map could probably even out first but I wanted to ask everyone or anyone whos was willing to listen. So... thoughts anyone? Let me know...
  
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted October 31, 2011 05:45 AM
Muzzy pipe. Just keep the revs up.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted October 31, 2011 06:18 AM
Thats what I'm saying shiph.... the stutter only happens when she's wide open. Makes me think she wants more fuel at that 5000 rpm mark but I dont know. I'm gonna go look at her map to see if anything looks odd or something. But thanks for the response.... ha ha I just noticed where it says I'm a parking attendant. Thats great... just great lol.
|
biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
|
posted October 31, 2011 08:41 AM
A reputable tuner will take care of all that!
____________
07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted October 31, 2011 09:44 AM
yeah both those flat spots are normal, and can be tuned out somewhat with the PC. but not gonna be 100% no matter what.
I really wouldn't worry about the flatness below 3000rpm tho, as the only time you would be down below that is if you're really cruising easy... and even then, usually you're at 3k or higher.
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted October 31, 2011 12:17 PM
I have a flatspot at 2500 rpms and again at about 4500 rpms. The slightest bit of wrist movement you get a slight stutter or a ka POW in acceleration.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted October 31, 2011 12:23 PM
That's just the kind of information I'm looking for frEEk. confirmation that its normal for this bike. I rode a honda before the 12 which had a completely different feel and everything. Being new to the area I'm short a couple homeboys or whatever that might have been able to impart some knowledge about how my 12 is running. My only question is, well not my only one, but is that a 12oo thing or a kawi thing or something else. What causes this these flat spots?
And say biggmo... you know I was actually looking into that already adding the tuner due to the fact that I've already had my PC "brick up" on me. I had to rip it out and send it back for replacement, not a very fun week that was, riding back at stock with no PC. But do you know of a tuner that will integrate with the PCIIIusb seeing how PC only sells one for the PC5 which is for 09's and up? Or is there a tuner that replaces the PC all together?
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted October 31, 2011 04:26 PM
Most sensible option is to get a PC3 (usb, serial or R ... R is serial but does ignition timing changes too) and have a reputable shop tune it out.
It will take some time but it can be made better....to be made PERFECT will require a little more dyno time.
It happens because of the primaries on the Muzzy pipe once mated to the 12R. Other pipes don't necessarily do it.
Lots of people bash muzzy for it. But then again you can't get a cheaper bang for the buck $-wise, aside from a nitrous kit.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted November 01, 2011 01:01 AM
Oh, to answer your question of what else do you need
1. A speedo healer
2. A gear indicator, cause yer constantly going to be trying to grab 7th gear. Gotta love all that torque 
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted November 01, 2011 03:41 AM
I will respectfully disagree with Freek and say your money is better spent on getting a damper first.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
|
posted November 01, 2011 07:49 AM
Tuner in referring to is a knowledgeable dyno tuner
____________
07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted November 01, 2011 09:58 AM
good call shiphteey
|
NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted November 01, 2011 11:56 AM
It will be hard to get it smooth with that muzzy pipe.
Akrapovic is a more refined pipe.
|
tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
|
posted November 01, 2011 10:49 PM
About the 2500 and 4500 RPM flatspots. After doing my ECU tuning with the OEM ECU noticed that between those areas when the throttle is low (less than 20% or so) the ECU gives about 45 degrees of ignition advance. Before 2500 it's about 10 degrees and after 4500 RPM about 20 degrees. That is probably because of emission levels. When I removed those exessive ignition advances and tuned the AFR to good the engine is now very smooth. In the 4000-4500 RPM:s and just cruising the AFR was also very rich (about 11 or even lover...). But I'm not sure if You can tune it out with PC because I think the biggest problem is just in those RPM:s because it's where the ignition advance changes a lot. So when the RPM:s are little higher the ECU uses much more ignition advance and if You back off little throttle the ECU goes back to "normal" advance and so on. Of course Muzzys can be little harder, but never read here anyone trying to tune Muzzys pipe with ECU tuning. Maybe that would be the key to get it smooth running?
|
frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
|
posted November 02, 2011 10:52 AM
Oh yeah, another must have unless you are a show n shine only rider: radiator guard from Cox. Those fins get dinged up pretty damn easily. Tho assuming your '00 has any significant miles on it, probably already too late for that.
|
harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
|
posted November 03, 2011 12:28 PM
Stainless steel brake lines. I prefer speigler because they allow you to move the fittings once , so you can get perfect alignment between the two ends.
Be aware that under severe braking the rear end of the bike may start hopping around. Let off the brakes...... if you don't you will go down.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
|
shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
|
posted November 03, 2011 04:10 PM
Harry....I need a jockey!!!!!!!!!!!!
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted November 07, 2011 03:09 PM
ger the ecu opened up and i know what to do.
the big time overlap makes the bike go real rich 2000 to 2600. that is the flatspot and shutter. it is also in the density map.
the hesitation is fixed by adding fuel in the lower areas to say 1/2 throttle in the 2000 to 3500 area. no jet modd needed then.
the overlap seems to let the compression blead out with the unrestricted muzzy on it.( how else will it go rich with just a pipe installed except for less air in the chamber cause no one messed with fuel)
as tuusinni said they go rich at higher rpms also. once tuned it will be mad fast and susike owners will doubt you till you prove it to them.
if i had 5 bucks for everyine that said what does it run and not believe me, man that cash would be nice.
|
Paul2281
Expert Class
Posts: 147
|
posted November 07, 2011 03:56 PM
quote:
Stainless steel brake lines. I prefer speigler because they allow you to move the fittings once , so you can get perfect alignment between the two ends.
Be aware that under severe braking the rear end of the bike may start hopping around. Let off the brakes...... if you don't you will go down.
Hey Harry,remember when we swapped bikes a few years ago,my ZRX and your ZX12??? What happened to your motor that day???? I just remember it died out when we stopped or something.....After riding yours is when I knew I needed a ZX12,thanks brother.....
|
jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted November 07, 2011 06:42 PM
hey rocket... thats good stuff right there, i want to learn about this bike. Now adding fuel like you were saying, can i cover that with just the power commander or do i have to go deeper?
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted November 07, 2011 07:07 PM
power commanders work but the way a ecu makes the bike run vs the power commander is different.
the power commander is like a last step bandaid to make the bike run correctly at the throttle position and rpm block you tuned it for.the problem is the ecu uses vacume and rpm for just cruising around and tps and rpm for a heavier load to full load on the engine.
power commanders work and unless you mess with things and love/mess with computers it is eaiser. but the ecu tune is better. but no one does that but someone who decided to learn it and do it.
on the power commander the "muzzy spot" needs a bunch of fuel taken out and again with the power commander it works but the hesitation some need to do the pilot jet modd for is because the ecu is real rich on the density (lite load)map but when it is stuttering real rich at 2300rpms i give it a good 1/2" of throttle and it went to 13 something to 1 and pulled out of it. and to fix the hesitation i added fuel around the same rpms it was rich at just riding around but on the A-N map it runs off when you are on it power wise vs taking fuel out of the density map near the same area rpm wise.
eaiser to get a commander tuned by someone that knows what they are doing and a stearing dampener.
i got a wego3 and tuned my bike my self. tshultz also ended up with a wego3 and uses it to tune his power commander and it also works well.
where do you live?
|
jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted November 07, 2011 08:32 PM
quote:
but the ecu tune is better. but no one does that but someone who decided to learn it and do it.
Man I'm down here in St. Petersburg, FL ( Tampa)... you anywhere close to here?
But to bring mention to your quoted above, I'm not trying to become a motorcycle mechanic or anything but I do have need to know how exactly my bike operates. The kawasaki platform... is about 5 months young to me so i haven't had a chance to get familiarized with her parts. You sound like you know every inch of the 12 andI'm digging these free mini-lessons that your posting. Too many more of those and I'll have to apply for more school loans to pay for the knowledge your sharing. LOL
Now the ECU... what are you using to interface with it or communicate with it? Because i believe I could tweak the PC maps enough to mask these flat spots, but as you said it s just a bandage. I dont think that when the muzzy setup was done, there was the correct changes made to anything we've talked about. I researched the wego3 and I'll be obtaining one of those without delay. At least the sensor, seen any extra sensors lying around anywhere? Thing is... I'm not rich... how much do those particular sensors cost?
But anywho... man if your comfortable with it I would just say here's my number (727) 320-3645, please give me a call cause I have so many questions. Anytime day or night, But yeah that would be killer, and anyone else out there, all you mechanical jedi, that are willing to share what you know about my bike, CALL ME seriously.
|
tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
|
posted November 07, 2011 11:04 PM
Here is all the info about the ECU tuning You need: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&pagenumber=32 It's a long thread but it started from the scratch. On that page (32) there are links to the programs and instructions how to use the low cost alternative. If You decide to go that route I can send You modified definition files that show TPS and IAP in volts so it's easier for tuner. Alternate solution is to buy the program and connection electronics.
|
jdr311
Parking Attendant
I want to go now...
Posts: 7
|
posted November 08, 2011 08:55 AM
wow ask for a Jedi.. and one answers the call! Mr. tuusinii sir, thank you for directing me to that thread. I read all 35 pages as if I was watching a movie.... I laughed... I cried... I even enjoyed some popcorn while my eyes began to water as i read on. To the cast of characters (Ridge, supra, tuus, wideout, and everyone else who were involved in sharing) goes all the respect and admiration I possess. Being an electrical engineer I was able to follow along with the progression of discoveries while each puzzle piece of technology was fitted to the next. I only regret not being there or being involved in that engineering, but I'm glad I got to watch or read the saga. Anywho....now that any question I might have will understandingly seem elementary I still humbly want to ask. So...
Just with adjusting the fuel map in the PCIII, I was able to smooth out that overlap or jump at 3000 and remove most of that flat spot at 5000 to 6000. However, I did pick up some rather lively backfiring after a hard throttle through first if the throttle was released back to 0 or leveled out through 2nd... and for some reason it feels like my clutch is now bouncing rather forcibly when engaged in 1st at idle speeds, but I think its brand new installed along with the exhaust. Either or.... how harmful can that backfiring be? should I get a o2 sensor put to use asap or should I just hit the local Dyno first? And are there any reputably known dynos in the tampa bay area
|
2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
|
posted November 08, 2011 02:53 PM
well if you have a laptop a wego3 can be used on anything normal to see what is going on. it will be more expencive but you need to weigh the pros of knowing live what is going on and just getting someone elses tune.
i move mine from the zx12 to my drag car to the pulling truck to a friends bike etc etc etc.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC