silverzx12r
Novice Class
flu by u
Posts: 52
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posted November 21, 2001 04:40 PM
Doug what is your opinion?
What is you opinion on breaking in a bike on a load pressure dyno?
    
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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Posts: 2713
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posted November 23, 2001 10:01 AM
I'm all for it if you have the facility to do it. After all, this is "the way it's done" in the real world of professional race engines. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent sitting at a dyno console just watching gauges while an engine breaks in. A very interesting thing happens when you do this. Many times you can actually see the engine "come in". It can happen fairly quickly after a certain amount of running is completed. The engine will change pitch and the torque will rise before your eyes. I was amazed the first time I saw it happen. When people ask me about the "break in" procedure, I prefer to speak in hours because this is my experience. Most race engines (other than drag race) are run for 3-5 hours plus power checks before they're "shipped". You need to vary the load, and reduce power every 30 minutes or so to heat cycle the parts. Start at a light load and gradually increase load/rpm over a couple of hours. After three hours or so I'd have no problem letting a 12 run continuously at 100 hp with some full throttle pulls.
One thing I've noticed about 12's (and all plated bore engines) is that they really don't get good until 3000 miles or so of street riding (that'd be an equivalent of 30 hours at 100 mph, 60 hours at 50-which is still a very fast average even for you guys). I believe that this is one of the reasons there is so much variance in stock bike dyno numbers.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted November 23, 2001 01:41 PM
Another Question Doug....
Since most people don't have access to a dyno for 60 hours, not to mention how cost prohibitive it would be, what type of break-in procedure would you recommend?? Anything different than whatthe factory recommends??? I am aware that Kawasaki recommends 2000 mile break-in period, what are your thoughts. Most of the 12R folks I know are hammering them just after 1000 miles. I'm asking because I'm just about to consumate a deal on an new 01 silver 12R.
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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silverzx12r
Novice Class
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Posts: 52
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posted November 23, 2001 07:01 PM
thanks Doug that was all I needed to hear, I have the money and it is to damn cold to be riding here in Indiana, so I will be taking my bike to the guy that said he would do it. thanks for your time.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
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posted November 24, 2001 09:09 AM
Break In
BMW,
I guess I wasn't clear. I said 3-5 hours on the dyno is a sufficient break in. But, the engine will continue to improve as the mileage builds.
My philosophy on break in has always been- "Just go ride it". Ride it nice, vary the use and load. Increase the intensity of use until by 500-1000 miles you've gone full throttle through the gears at least once. I PERSONALLY have never liked the arbitrary rpm limits (certain rpm for this many miles) promoted by the OE's. I've always felt that they were set by the legal department rather than the engineers. Variable light loads is best. Then change the oil to full syn (Motul 300V) and go ride some more. Take it to the dealer for the recommended first service the first time when recommended if only this one time. Those that "hammer" them at 1000 miles should be aware that that won't hasten the break in process. There is no substitute for hours.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted November 24, 2001 11:07 AM
Couldn't agree with Doug more!!! I don't let them do the first service (don't trust my dealer) I mean some guy with 1/10 the experience I have working on my bike, not. Let me say this, my bike has 23,000 miles and runs better each time I ride it.
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted November 24, 2001 06:38 PM
Thanks......
Doug - Thanks for the advice and information. This will be the first time breaking in a bike for me and I want to do it correctly. If 3-5 hours of variable loads on the dyno is all it takes, I will investigate the local speed shop to see if I can get it done there. I think that will be better than freezing my ass off trying to get the miles on the bike in Dec. I will be putting a full exhaust system on it (probably Muzzy), would you recommend breaking it in with the stock or aftermarket system?? Additionally what used to hold the throttle during this procedure??
BMW
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 24, 2001 08:15 PM
BMW,
If your dyno doesn't have a remote throttle set up you're using the wrong of dyno. That question is a red flag. Don't put the pipe on for extended dyno running.It will overheat. You MUST have a good set of fans for constant running.
Ted I'm a nut on a (good) dealer doing the first service and here's why; A large, good dealer has the luxury of seeing many examples of a particular model or family. They know what to look at, where the trouble spots are, what needs to be adjusted (e.g., head bearings, etc.). They know what a "normal" valve adjustment is. They know what looks right and what looks wrong. They have the special tools, they have recieved the service bulletins, they can call the Hot line if they see something that looks hinky and ask a question and can open a file on the bike at the big KMC computer.
If something goes wrong down the road, it is a huge "talking point" to have had an authorized dealer do taht service. Now, I know that there are alot of dealers out there that don't have that attitude, but they are there and you just need to find them.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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lubricity
Expert Class
Posts: 362
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posted November 25, 2001 02:04 AM
Come on Doug?
Doug,
It is about time you level with these guys. You are always keeping the performance secrets to yourself so your guys are faster. Tell us how you really break in your motors.
Good Advise Doug.
One last point, You CAN'T "tune" your bike until this happens. The engine will respond completely differently once broken in. Whether a car or bike.
Longliveinjection161
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a poor 12 owner
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted November 25, 2001 05:09 AM
Thanks Again....
Obvoiusly I'm pretty green about these things so I consider it a tremendous blessing to be conversing with a renowned expert in the field.
So a dyno without a remote throttle setup is a red flag??? What type/brand of dyno do you recommend??? Is there anything else I need to be looking out for??? I'm really trying not to ride the bike in the cold although I want to have it broke in by March because I'm headed to my first Daytona Bike Week!!!
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted November 25, 2001 05:13 AM
Silver12R......
Who/where are you taking your bike to have it broken in on a dyno?? I'm with you, I don't want to ride in the cold. I'm in Dayton OH so anywhere in IN is reasonalbe for me.
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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silverzx12r
Novice Class
flu by u
Posts: 52
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posted November 26, 2001 09:16 PM
I have to talk to my buddy in Florida but the guy that has the dyno is near lousiville,Ky I will get his name and number and his company's name. I know he tunes a lot of race bikes. I know for sure he does John Jacobies bike which is also a buddy of mine that races. but I will talk to my buddy as soon as I can, and I will keep you updated.
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BlackMandingoWarrior
Expert Class
Posts: 320
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posted November 26, 2001 09:51 PM
Thanks......
I appreciate the info, sorry for butcherin your handle!?!? :o
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BMW
The QuickSilver Ridin MoFo
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