OZZY
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted February 01, 2003 06:33 AM
SPACE SHUTTLE MISSING, turn on tv
What in the hell happened? The shuttle is missing on renetry, reported to be missing over Texas on descent to Florida.
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"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses......HIT IT!"
Blues Bros.
  
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted February 01, 2003 06:52 AM
yeh looks bad
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/01/shuttle.landing.ap/index.html
never ever ever lost a craft to landing
pilot was israeli national, israeli air force.
coincidence? perhaps... but they DID have heightened security....
   
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted February 01, 2003 07:04 AM
Man, sucks...
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted February 01, 2003 07:42 AM
...my radio-alarm clock woke me up with the news...I hate waking up to bad news...my prayers to those involved 
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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zx12zx11
Expert Class
Posts: 471
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posted February 01, 2003 07:59 AM
 Edited By: zx12zx11 on 1 Feb 2003 08:09
I just saw that aparently the Shuttle exploded on rentry at an altitude of aprox. 200,700 feet and traveling aprox. 12,500 miles an hour.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted February 01, 2003 08:00 AM
Mission Commander Rick Husband
Pilot William "Willie" McCool
Payload Commander Michael Anderson
Mission Specialist Kalpana Chawla
Mission Specialist David Brown
Mission Specialist Laurel Clark
Payload Specialist Ilan Ramon
 
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted February 01, 2003 08:44 AM
Godspeed to all, and I will pray for you and your families.
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted February 01, 2003 11:05 AM
oh no, not again....
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Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted February 01, 2003 11:35 AM
Very very sad. At least these seven fine people were doing what it was they loved and wanted to do. Thoughts and prayers go to their families.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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diverig
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted February 01, 2003 11:50 AM
God speed
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ohitstodd
Novice Class
Posts: 73
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posted February 01, 2003 11:56 AM
My thoughts are with the families. It's hard to know what to say.
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted February 02, 2003 12:17 AM
Like the seven space shuttle astronauts that went before them and all the other astronauts that have perished while pursuing the dreams of all of us, President Reagan's words, 17 years ago, still ring true today.
We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for the journey and waved goodbye and slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God.
Ronald Reagan -- Oval Office of the White House, January 28, 1986
Apollo 1
January 27, 1967
Gus Grissom
Ed White
Roger Chaffee
Space Shuttle Challenger STS-51L
January 28, 1986
Francis R. Scobee
Michael J. Smith
Ronald E. McNair
Ellison S. Onizuka
Judith A. Resnik
Gregory B. Jarvis
Sharon Christa McAuliffe
Space Shuttle Columbia STS-107
Febuary 1, 2003
Rick D. Husband
Kalpana Chawla
William C. McCool
David M. Brown
Laurel B. Clark
Michael P. Anderson
Ilan Ramon
Thank you and Godspeed to them all
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ZHooligan
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posted February 02, 2003 12:19 AM
The words still touch my heart.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted February 02, 2003 05:42 AM
a terrible, horrible, national disaster...
godspeed
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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DoubleAught
Novice Class
Posts: 45
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posted February 02, 2003 10:04 PM
Over the next few weeks you all are going to hear a lot of criticism leveled at NASA for safety shortcuts, mismanagement, and incompetence. I'm writing to let you know the truth, which you probably won't be hearing on the network news.
Here's how I know what I know - from 97 through July of 02 I worked as a contractor doing software development & maintenance at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, AL. This is where the shuttles were built, the engines and fuels tested, and many of the projects destined for space prepared. I know many of the engineers, scientists, and support personnel very well, and I have met or listened to quite a few of our astronauts over the years.
During the "glory years" of NASA, they enjoyed a very large budget, and safety and necessity as determined by scientists and engineers dictated how the money was spent. Unfortunately, for quite a few years before I got there up through today, politicians have played an increasing role in determining what a space mission should cost.
In years past, spacecraft were built with a double, triple, or quadruple redundancy of critical systems, so if one failed, there were others waiting to take up the job and ensure the safety of the mission. The level of redundancy was determined by engineers and scientists, and quite naturally this greatly increased the cost of a mission.
In todays' NASA 'bang for the buck' is the keyword. This is NOT by choice of any of NASA's personnel, but by choice of politicians who would rather spend the money elsewhere.
What has been the effect of allowing politicians to make decisions that should be made by scientists & engineers?
First, and most grievious is this - Many of the spacecraft systems which were originally designed with backup now must function perfectly or fail, costing the mission. Apparently the politicians fail to realize that if a spacecraft has a problem in space, you can't just set course for Starbase 87 & set in for repairs. The Mars probe failures were the most recent example of this. The failure of a single, low-cost item can now destroy a multimillion-dollar
effort. If NASA's personnel had their way, this would not happen.
Secondly, personnel have been cut to unconscionably low levels.
The level of stress and overwork at the center was quite high during the last three years I worked there (probably the same as at many of the places where you all work) , and when budget time came around every year few of the people who worked there knew if they would have the personnel and resources to do their job well in the coming year.
The people of MSFC are among the friendliest, most highly qualified, professional and dedicated people it has ever been my pleasure to work with, and mission safety is always their highest priority. I have never worked anywhere where people took a greater pride in what they were doing.
There are TV monitors throughout the center, and whenever there was a launch, people who were able would stop whatever they were doing, gather around the monitors together and watch as yet another mission began. You could see the pride and joy in their faces with each success, and you could see the misery whenever something went wrong. Be assured, they take their work very personally.
There is one other factor at work here - there are a few unscrupulous businesses contracting with the government who are more interested in selling NASA something they don't need at an outrageous price than they are in delivering a fair deal to the taxpayers. I don't think that this involves substandard equipment, but rather unnecessary materiel which drains NASA's budget.
Take a moment, look at your bike. Compared to a shuttle, it is a rather simple thing, which is used in a known environment, but things still go wrong. Now consider a spacecraft. The vessels, and every system within them are subjected to extremes of heat & cold that do not exist anywhere on this planet outside of a laboratory. The G-forces and vibration these components are subjected to are quite beyond comprehension, as well as vacuum, hard radiation, and less well understood phenomena which exist in space. If you've never been near one of these engines when they are fired, you have no idea. Consider this - the turbopumps which feed fuel and oxygen to the engines could empty an Olympic-sized swimming pool in 40 seconds, and the fuels used are among the most violently reactive substances known to man. In this context, the people of NASA have done a exceptional job.
I am proud to have played a small part in Americas' space program, as my father did before me. I hope that you all remember in days to come, no matter what you hear on TV, that the truth is this - Politics can never substitute for sound scientific reasoning, and the people who are truly at fault in this disaster will never face blame.
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted February 03, 2003 05:23 AM
I haven't chimed in here because honestly I haven't been able to put the words together. I've been following and a fan of the space program since I was 8 years old and stood in front of the TV in 1969 and watched Niel Armstrong walk on the moon. Growing up in the midwest you don't hear much about the space program and what you did hear was just highlights.
When I moved to Florida in 1984 it was like rediscovering the space program all over again. There is a huge interest and support of the program not only because of the vital economic impact it has on this area but it seems like these people just care about what they do. The more you hear about that kind of attitude the more it makes you care.
I watched every launch I could and when the Challenger broke up during launch in January 1986 I was standing on the top of our building watching it happen. I immediately went home and watch the coverage for the rest of the day. The impact that this disaster had on this area was amazing in many ways. The positive was the the people in the space program, always had been and alway will be. Their hearts were broken, but not their spirits. The negatives are many fold. The depression on the economy with 15,000 layoffs had a big initial impact and many ripple effects through the area. The involvement of politics seemed to also come into play in a huge way after that happened. It had always been there but it was much more apparent after this occured.
Since that time the rebuild has been amazing considering the budget restraints and political fighting to get the program to move with the budget. It was also a huge learning cycle for contractors on the projects. I worked in the early 90's with many people that were involved with the engine program for one of the contractors. I heard the stories of the Apollo days and about the start of the shuttle program. Most of what I heard were things I had never heard before and probably would have never heard if I wasn't talking to the people directly involved in some of the projects.
During the past few years the local media in this area has done a respectable job covering both the front page type news and the haggling that's going on in the background. The bad thing is that you only hear it all in a few areas. The rest of the country is left in the dark about what a struggle it is to make it all work.
Today the local news is reporting about all the funding and safety issues related to budgeting and are being really hard on the politicians for pushing NASA to put a lot of the safety aside and keep the program moving. All the safety measures in the world may not have prevented what happened, we'll have to wait and see the results of the investigation.
I'm not sure that makes you feel better DoubleAught but at least around here the wagons are circling around the Cape instead of pointing fingers at them.
Right now our thoughts and prayers should be with the brave heros that were on the Columbia and their families that they left behind.
Godspeed to the crew of the Columbia
Dave
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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ZHooligan
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posted February 03, 2003 11:17 AM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 3 Feb 2003 15:34
I'm a little older Dave. I can relate to standing on the sidewalk in front of the store window, watching the TV as Sheppard blasted off and later John Glen. I sent off for every shred of information on the space program. There was an enormous amount of really good and frankly free information on the space program in the 60's. The space program captured my imagination and decided that I wanted to be an astronaut. As a result I set my goals to be first a pilot and then an astronaut. In those days as you know astronauts were military test pilots. I went to college as a NAVY ROTC Scholarship recipient and in 1972 during my physical prior to leaving for flight school it was discovered that I had cancer. Needles to say this changed my life and crushed the dream. Becoming a pilot was not any kind of guarentee that I would become an astronaut, but not being a pilot certainly guarenteed that I wouldn't! regardless, my interest has never subsided.
NASA is made up of many incredibly talented, and dedicated people. In spite of the blowing political winds they have managed to pull things off. As a guy that has been around to see pretty much all of it, I can also say it is not just the politicians, but the people of this country that have hurt the program and share in the blame if such is to be cast on someone. I have listened for years as people have besmirched the program and it's cost. Yes it is expensive, and yes corners could be cut and more lives sacrificed. But the reality is, we are as a nation and a world for that matter, better off because of the space program. Technology, whether it be in computers, velcro, filtration, filters, sensors, medicine and other untold numbers of things invented in support of the program, or by the program. And unlike so many other forced social programs, if you look at that crew of seven men and women that died........ They were seven extremely talented highly educated and qualifed people. An honest to god diverse group of deserved people. People of color, different genders, from different countries and back grounds.
Those who question the costs and risks need to step back and take a moment to think. When the Europeans set out to explore the world many never came back. Entire ships and crews disappeared. When groups of explorers set out to explore North America, not all of them came back. The big difference between then and now, was/is they didn't have the media there to evaluate and question their every move. The Wright Brothers have always been attributed with the first successful flight, but let us not forget all of those folks that died trying to do the same.
As citizens we need to tell our congressmen and senators to support the program and stop spending money to study the sweat glands of the CC fly and other ignorant follies.
My heart goes out to the families of these men and women. Their loved ones died doing exactly what they wanted to do more then probably anything else in the world. Now the families must overcome the loss and build anew. May they have God's speed and comfort with them all.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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