VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 06:34 AM
SwingArms 101 (What no one tells us)
Most of you have read some on my experiences on getting a Swing arm mod done. I have been reading on these boards as long as anyone. I have been around Bikes longer than Most. I am the first to say that there is more that I do not know, than I know. I did not know reading was one of the "Missing" Subjects! 
Two basic types of Mods. Fixed Increase and "Adjustable" Increase!
Fixed is the easy (At least I think it is) one to explain! You send your arm away and someone adds a section from 1" to as long as you want and you keep the stock adjustor assembly!
Adjustable This is where the Maker gives you an Option of adjustment ranges and you send your arm out for this Mod!
First Unknown, the "0" mentioned is not a "0" adjustment as in the Stock arm, but the "Original" end of the stock arm, vs adding more length!
Second, "0 to 6" only means the end of the Adjustment range can be 6" longer than stock.
Third, Depending on how the Brake Caliper bracket is Modified, you can end up with .75 to 5" range or 2.5" to 6" in range.
Fourth, Depending on the Builders experience, they will give you the range they "Think" or assume you want.
Fifth, DO not trust your friends or other Board members! They like the Builders also assume what you want or need and think that their experience will be your experience!
Last (For now) as far as I can tell, no one makes a "0" (Original) adjustable range arm!
The worse part of this experience is that the Builders actually know what the "Real" Adjustment Range of their arms are, but (I guess for Advertising reasons) will not disclose it to the Buyer! If they did, then the arms would be sold as 1" to 5", 2.5" to 6" ( and this is just the "0 to 6" arm) More later!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted January 21, 2003 07:05 AM
Vince,sounds like you still need more rest.I'm sure that if you state to the swingarm builder how important it is that you get the "0" in a adjustable arm he will either not build it for you or give you your "0".I have a Frank Adams arm also and was able to still use my stock chain in the "0"position and I think this is what most people are hoping.
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted January 21, 2003 09:07 AM
I wish I was there to buy you a beer Vince. This sounds terribly frustrating and I know how that is, especially related to my bikes. For all it's worth, I rooting for you to get this fixed up soon.
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If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 09:43 AM
quote:
Vince,sounds like you still need more rest.I'm sure that if you state to the swingarm builder how important it is that you get the "0" in a adjustable arm he will either not build it for you or give you your "0".I have a Frank Adams arm also and was able to still use my stock chain in the "0"position and I think this is what most people are hoping.
Cowboy, Not knowing that the "0" is not "0", why would anyone even think they needed to explain that they wanted "0"? Why call an Arm "0" to anything if it is not? WHen you buy a motorcycle and measure the wheelbase would it be ok with you if they were off by 2.5 inches" How about the fuel tank? Would it be ok if they were off by 1.5 gallons and instead of the 5.25, it was only 3.75 gallons? why HP! The state 300 and it only has 200, would that also be ok? Why not price, they say $8,000 and charge you $12,000 before interest and taxes.
Not yelling at you, but the misleading advertising! If it is 1" to 5" or 2.5" to 6" that is what they should state!
If it is to be a front adjustor, then it should adjust all of the way in (In front of the axle) not 2.5" and hit the inside wall of the arm!
To me, this is like someone's secret club. Worse yet, it is like Harley Owners. All they do is tell everyone how great their bike is, and when you buy it and find out how bad it really is, then they say, That is part of the enjoyment of ownership! Taking a little pride in keeping up with your bike, not like those Jap bikes, these have a Soul that needs to be fed!
I plan to make sure that anyone buying an arm know what to look out for and does not go through the Do Do I just did!
The worse part, is that 99% of these people (Including Frank) are good and decent people. It is just the fact that in their "Club" of secret handshakes and Knowledge, a lot has been taken for granted. All I am asking for is that they tell the truth and give people a real choice! Who knows who makes a real "ZERO", Do you?? and How do you know??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted January 21, 2003 10:39 AM
Vince,i can see exactly where your coming from but think you should just let this one drop.
And when i bought my first zx12 i think Kawi was advertising(or led us to believe) that this bike was going to run 200mph stock.This type of shit happens all the time and i know you are just trying to make sure someone else doesn't get misled.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 10:46 AM
As far as "Frank" is concerned, it was over last night! This is now about what is and what is not! Actually Kawasaki really said "We did not build it to be slower"! The Euro Fag Government had more than a little to do with this! The Euro People really got the shaft, Ever see the Restrictors on a French ZX12R? A Nickel could not get lost if you dropped it in the fuel injection intake!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 21, 2003 10:59 AM
Vince, one thing I made sure when I talked to Coby Adams of Adams Performance that my requirement was I absolutely HAD to be able to run wheelbase at just under 60 inches for the 60" PSB class, and I made sure that he knew that up front so there wouldn't be any surprises. Everything worked out well, with the wheelbase as short as it will go it's 59" and if I play with the gearing I can get 59.75". Coby does awesome work. It will extend out to about 64" maybe 65 if you're right on the edge and can get the chain tension right but so far I've got two chain lengths for 60" and 63.5". Coby calls this a 3-6 over arm, and it's pretty damn close to it. They normally offer 3-9 but I told him I don't need anything that long...
Anyway your experience is a lesson learned make sure you communicate minimum requirements in advance.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 12:32 PM
You have really scared me with your last statement, because it is so close to my Dads statement! "Experience is always someting you get Immediately after you need it"!
I could deal with Colby, because he states "3 to 6"! Not knowing the "Secret Hand shake", I thought "0" Was at the "0" Adjustment for stock! Now that a know a tiny!! Bit more, I want to let others know at least this amount! Again, You and Wayne Lawson's Offer for a temporary Arm were really appreciated, because that was where I was thinking I was going to need to go! If "Frank" does what I have asked, I will have a pretty good set up! WIth the adjustors in back, .75 inches, with the adjustors in front, 5.25 inches! With a very small modification at the rear, 5.50 inches and with a little more work, about .5 inches in front! Also, I will not be tripping over the adjustors!. Later, I will make the Full Float set up for the rear brake with adjustable Heim Joints! Then it will be .5 to 6.0 Inches! (You know that I still hat the idea of not having the .5 inches!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ohitstodd
Novice Class
Posts: 73
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posted January 21, 2003 12:53 PM
quote:
You know that I still hat the idea of not having the .5 inches!
Don't let a half-inch kill ya.
I'm a programmer, so I know how you feel. Perfection or death.(in my case, the result is that things don't run properly )
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 01:50 PM
Todd, finally real words of Wisdom Angie would understand Perfection or Death part! Inside Joke!! I think I will even show this to my wife, Poor Peggy! (I wonder what sin she committed to be punished by being my wife??)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ZX12Girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted January 21, 2003 02:49 PM
 Edited By: ZX12Girl on 21 Jan 2003 14:50
quote:
Fifth, DO not trust your friends or other Board members! They like the Builders also assume what you want or need and think that their experience will be your experience!
Hey!!! Watch it mister!!! Some of us just are not as damn picky as you are!!!!
I wanted 6" - I got 6"!!! LOL...No jokes please!!!
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Life is an adventure. Are you driving?
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted January 21, 2003 02:52 PM
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 03:58 PM
Angie, "YOU" do not understand "Picky"?? I really hate to leave the "6" Part alone!! You understand what I was saying, no one here ever mentioned anything about what "Zero" was and is! I know that I have an knack for pissing people off, while showing them respect, but when People pass the test, everyone knows that they are Gold, when the fail the test, they do not look so good! You saw what he said to me, Sure did not look like a "Clean" Board to me?? Of all the things that happened, the fact that I cannot do Business with (What was the guys business name??) really upset me 
I think I will be as close as possible if "He" does what I have asked him to do. If he does not, then I sell the arm and go elsewhere! (Where I should have gone to begin with! (Someone that has passed all of the test)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ohitstodd
Novice Class
Posts: 73
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posted January 21, 2003 04:37 PM
Vincent,
I've 'heard' really good things about Coby Adams, and I have a McIntosh chromoly "8" over arm..it's for another brand.(my GSX-R) I know Terry also does modifications to stock arms.
He is a real straight shooter. If he says he can make an arm to certain spec. I've little doubt he can. He also raked my frame. It's a wonderful job.
Contact info.
McIntosh Machine & Fabrication
937-687-3936
New Lebanon, OH.
Terry McIntosh - Owner
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ZX12Girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted January 21, 2003 04:44 PM
Edited By: ZX12Girl on 21 Jan 2003 16:47
quote:
You saw what he said to me, Sure did not look like a "Clean" Board to me??
Yeah, but you were being pleasantly sarcastic and bitchy!!! I see why you are good at your profession!! Hahaha...LOL
Well, I really hope everything works out for you!!!
BTW: Your "overly picky, perfect" self :d may have just spark some usefull information for the non-dragracer!!!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2003 05:00 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 22 Jan 2003 05:24
I have learned a "TON" ! I would never commit a crime where you could see it! You would be one of those Eye Whitness that remembered everything! You see waay too deep! The worst part is that I have "Mellowed" In my Old age! I still question my friends as to why they are my friends and I should want someone with better taste (Short story) I was in Atlantic City New Jersey at a friends house and noticed this one person following me around! I asked he husband and he said she wanted to be there when I insulted someone! He told her that I had changed some and she did not believe him! Trust me I am Milk Toast compared to how I was!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ZX12Girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted January 21, 2003 05:04 PM
Oh! Man! LOL
Can I relate to that!!!! I am almost tolerable now...get nicer with every b-day.
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